Daniel Chin (brief interjections)
Appearances
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
I thought it was really interesting, and I'm very, very curious to see how this all plays out in the episodes moving forward, just because we know where it goes in the game. But I really liked how they especially gave Tommy his moment in this episode and being able to show him lead Jackson instead of being there with Joel.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
There's going to be a lot of things that it could change with their dynamic because of that, because Tommy wasn't there when this happened. He didn't kind of... introduce Joel to Abby in the first place so maybe he doesn't have that guilt weighing on him.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
And then, of course, with just Dina and Ellie not being paired together, we don't know as much about their relationship as we do in the game at this point. So moving forward, it's going to be interesting to see how this shakes out.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
I've waited so... Oh, just shut the fuck up and do it already.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah, I mean, it's different in the show in the sense that they're really drawing out this whole exchange in general. And it's interesting just to see the clocks turning for Joel in this moment, especially now that there's this whole other element in play with Jackson being under siege. So you have Joel looking out the window, seeing Jackson on fire. So he's already not...
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
clocking any of the former Firefly members like he probably would be because he's so distrustful. So I liked how there's all these little context things that are kind of taking him off his game already. And there's that one like deliberate shot where Joel's looking at Dina on the ground as he's like thinking like, all right, well, maybe I could try to lie my way out of this.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Like maybe there's another Joel or something. I don't know. Maybe there's something else he could lie, but.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah, I totally agree with that, and I like that change a lot for that reason as well. But then the flip side of it too, which I think is going to be really interesting to see, is what it means for Tommy. Yeah, yes.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Because you're thereby kind of sacrificing Tommy's motivation a little bit, plus the fact that Tommy is being repositioned to be this huge leader in the community, plus he's a father now. Yes. So his whole calculus is very different now too. Definitely. Definitely.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, just in general, they've shrunk the whole Salt Lake crew, the whole former Fireflies crew, because in the game, there's a few other characters like Jordan, Leah, and a couple other people that I don't even know the names of. And I think that's part of the reasoning too, because there are a lot of less memorable characters that are
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
placed in this crew and they've consolidated in a way where these are all the important ones that you have to know from the game. But in the process, they made some interesting choices where Jordan is one of the few of the lesser memorable characters that has a little bit more to do.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Like he's the one that when Ellie eventually enters the room, when Joel's about to die, Jordan's the one that Ellie cuts in the face and he comes up later on because they have captured Ellie, and then Dina has to come save him. But now it's Manny kind of filling that role. Jordan is kind of the hothead of the crew.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
And it's funny because in the game, Manny's actually the one that holds Jordan back. But they've been combined to be one character where Manny is now kind of the hothead in the crew, and they have to restrain him from killing Ellie. So there's just a little bit of changing around to, I think, make it fit more in the sense for TV. But it's...
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Going to be interesting, I think, to see how Manny changes as a character overall, too, if this is like part of that reasoning, too.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Definitely. Especially, at least in this podcast, we're going spoilers, of course. But in writing the weekly recaps, every single time I'm like, is this like a little too leading? Is it like clear that I know what's going to happen? Do the readers know?
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah, it really seemed like Manny was the only one that was, like, cool with it the whole way. Yeah. They, like, have all these, like, cutaway shots of their reactions, and he's just like, hell yeah. Right.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
So thankfully. Yeah.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah, it's interesting because I feel like they are telling you a lot more about some of these characters up front, especially in how Mel, for example, is so repulsed by everything that Abby's doing. But then at the same time, like you were just saying, we don't have all the exposition of the relationship specifically, of Mel being pregnant, all of these things that are better.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
If they stick with it, they're going to be very important later on in the TV show as they are in the game. Yeah.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
I'm still very torn about this because I think this was definitely the biggest challenge that they had coming into the show. And still now, like, now that they've actually made their choice, I think it's very divisive in terms of how people are responding to it. And I think it needs to be something that I would want to see how this show plays out a little bit more to make a final judgment on.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Because, like, having that nightmare sequence in the beginning of this episode I thought was really interesting. It was actually exactly, I think, what I was talking about last week in terms of...
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
something that I wanted to see and I liked that they tweaked it a little bit so it has this moment where Abby in the present is looking back and talking to herself in the past like as a creative choice I thought that was that was really interesting and she's just such a good actor and being able to just see how much she's having this internal conflict like very literally talking to herself and in her mind as she's dreaming it's
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
It's cool to see them making this kind of change early on and still trying to surprise the audience while alluding to stuff that they were doing a lot in the game.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah, it's tricky because I feel like with just the length of this monologue, it does border on kind of like the cartoonish villain explaining the whole... Yeah, the mustache twirling. Yeah, exactly. But her performance is so good in the scene that I feel like it just works in a way that you're invested in this character very early on in the way that you are in the game. So it's...
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
It's tough to tell exactly without knowing how much more we're even going to see of Abby this season. Yeah. But there is something that's just so brilliant about the game. Like, especially that moment when everybody's heads kind of pop up when Joel says his name. And Joel's like, oh, it sounds like you've heard of us before. Yeah. Uh-oh. Because then as a gamer, you're like, oh, shit.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Like, this is about to take quite a turn. And they still do that in the show a little bit. I still think it's a very nice moment, too. But at that point, as the audience, you know exactly why they're perking up, too. But it's still an interesting moment, nonetheless.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
I think so, honestly. Yeah. And I know it is it is very different medium and it's tough in that sense. But I think just between like that opening scene in the first episode, like pairing that with Abby's really long monologue and this nightmare sequence, there is, again, a little bit of like handholding. in terms of, like, showing us exactly who she is. Yeah.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah, I thought it was just funny how there was just no chill the second that it was out. Everybody was like, all right, finally we can talk about this. The golf club memes were out. People were just like, if you didn't watch it that night, then it was probably going to get spoiled.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
But at the same time, like, again, with that nightmare sequence, like, Caitlin Devers is so good in all these scenes that, like... Yeah. I'm still just appreciating her performance each time that she's on screen. Yeah. So I'm conflicted. I... It's impossible to take myself out of having seen the way the game did it. And I think that's always the hardest thing about this.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
It was interesting because I was going to ask you, since I played the game a few years later, what was it like in your experience when you're actually playing it and having it right after?
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah, I mean, that moment is just so devastating when Joel just lifts his head a little bit. And there's just this sense that he's failing her again. Not only just failing her, but failing Dina. Because he's about to die with both of his adoptive daughters in this room with all the fireflies that he's pissed off.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
I just like the detail a lot too that it's like the broken piece of the golf club. Yes. Because she's just hit him so many times, hit him so hard that the golf club is broken.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
I mean, there's a whole bag of golf clubs. I guess she could have moved on to a different club if she really wanted to.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah, I agree. I really loved just the cameo of Ashley Johnson in the first season. I thought that was the best out of bringing all the video game actors back into the fold. Because there's this really nice poetic touch of her being the mother to the character that she was for so many years and that she made so iconic. Yeah. And it is a really fitting end to this episode.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
And it's a very tough episode. It's a very tough watch.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Agreed, yeah. And I just love that last shot of all of them going back to Jackson on fire and this moment where Ellie's looking back at the body. You don't see exactly what she's looking at at first, but when the camera pans back around and you see them dragging Joel's body, it's just... And then the music cutting out, too, for the no credits, the music in the credits is devastating. Yeah.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
I'm leaning a little bit towards worse, just in the sense that it was just such a shock in the game. But it's also just unfair, because we're going into this knowing that already. We know too much. Yeah, we know too much. They've set it up a little bit differently. But I do like all the changes that they've made overall. So it's just different to me.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
It's very different, because I really like the innovation of... the attack on Jackson and everything it does to change the tension of this whole part of the narrative in a way that makes it so exciting. But especially for people that have played the game already, it's changed the dynamic completely in a way that it makes this very fresh and exciting too.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah. I will say, like, in a vacuum, what I did really love is just the performance of every actor involved, too, in a way that it's, like, it's so different seeing this happen in live action. Like, seeing Bella Ramsey's performance in this scene, like, they're so good in it with Caitlin Dever as well. And just the level of detail and care that's going to each one of these things.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Like, I love seeing the inside the episode things, the making of The Last of Us afterwards and just, like, The details of having to set up the prosthetics around Joel's face for this and just bringing in the crane shot for just that one bird's eye view of Ellie clutching onto Joel. All these little nuances that they did for live action, I think, are just awesome.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah, it's definitely fair. I mean, especially just going back to the end of last season. The Fireflies just fumbled it so hard in so many possible ways. Not even just letting Joel and Ellie talk one last time. Right. I think that could have just changed everything because then he could have seen firsthand that Ellie... This is what Allie wants.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
liked it a lot because i feel like it made the whole episode it would have already felt like a big event but it really really makes it feel like a big event with just the the scale of the production size and just the action itself obviously but the way that it just changes a lot of these dynamics in so many little and big ways i think is is really fun and it's going to be really cool to see moving forward as well like we already talked about how
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
it's just creating this effect on Joel where he's just distracted by the whole thing happening the whole time. I think that's fascinating in itself. But the fact that Abby is inadvertently setting this horde upon Jackson too. And that all of this is coming back to Joel in a way, that consequence of what Joel has done at the end of the first season creates all these fascinating ripple effects.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah, I certainly see all the critiques of it. And if people didn't like it, I totally understand. But I do think they, like you're saying, I mean, I think they do contrast each other really well. It works well in tandem. And just being able to see the biggest threats to humanity right now, just being still the infected and also just still humans, because humans are bad.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Seeing both of those happen simultaneously in this way, I thought made for a really, really cool dual event.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah, I mean, it's a good point. And especially just because we don't fully know how the mycelium stuff works. Like, if it's just going to deliver a message to the nearest infected or how many it's reaching at the same time. She certainly sped up the process. That much we know.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah, the moment when you see the golf clubs in the background, it's like, all right, this is time.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
I think he kind of has to, just based on where we see. Obviously, they could change some things, but One of the most memorable parts of Tommy in the two games is him fighting Abby and Manny later on. And I love playing that so much from the gaming perspective because you get to see how badass Tommy really is. And it's like you can't even turn a corner without him sniping you.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
So to lose that, you're losing a big part of who Tommy is. But at the same time, I feel like he's just completely irredeemable if he does go with the way that they've set him up in this. Because not only is he a leader in this community, but he has a kid too. So it's like, is your own personal loss, is your own trauma more important than the role that you now have in this community?
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah, it's a great point. I really like how much emphasis they've been putting into Jackson in these first two episodes, and especially in just seeing the way that they've actually prepared their defenses. I thought it was really cool and the different levels in which they've prepared it.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
But to your point, I mean, I don't know how much more they're going to be able to show, but a big reason for that is just because we didn't see it in the game. So maybe there is a lot more that they can build.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
both literally in terms of rebuilding the town or just from a narrative perspective, that will make this more interesting, especially with us knowing that they're going to be splitting this into two seasons. Yes, exactly.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
I think that we probably will, just based on what... Like, I mean, maybe not to read too much into the trailers, but we haven't seen anything, again, of Lev and Yara. So it seems like that's going to be... Like it is in the game, too. A lot of the focus later on, probably third season stuff, but...
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
I think especially in TV, it's too hard to just completely forget about a character who's so central to the plot for five more episodes or so. So I'm sure that they'll still be focusing on them, especially as we get further and further into Seattle with Dina and Ellie and maybe Jesse. It's hard to tell if Jesse comes in later, like the game, or if he's going to be there from the start.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
I think it's probably going to be as soon as next week, honestly. Just because from the next week on, we see the moments of Ellie going through Joel's house and looking through his old things.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah, his jacket and stuff. I feel like they're probably seeding something there. And just because we've seen that there's going to be a lot of flashbacks. I think the Weeks Ahead trailer that they put out after the first episode shows that interaction with Gale and Joel talking about the moth. and what it symbolizes, which we didn't see in this episode, of course.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
So it seems like we're going to be seeing a lot more of him. It's just... How much next episode? I don't know. We'll see.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah, I agree. Because I mean, in the game, it's just so impactful when you do have that very first, I think it's the first flashback, but one of the first flashbacks at least of when Ellie and Joel have like that outing to the museum. Yes. And you just get that moment of them back together and it's so special and it's so bittersweet because you get to see them together again. Yeah.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
But it's like, it's that an impact of knowing that he's gone. So I think to your point, it does help to kind of delay that as much as possible.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
I was ready. I was bracing myself.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Never too much.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
I may just be optimistic, but I think it is the latter. I think that this will help it grow in part because I think they just did such a good job of it. And comparing that to like The Walking Dead, for example, like at least for me personally, I had already fallen off before Glenn's death and I kind of tuned back in to see it. Yeah. I guess just to piss myself off even more about that show. Yeah.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
But with that, it was like so deep in the show's run already. Yes. Compared to this where it's like we're still kind of at the beginning of this journey, especially with this season where I feel like there's still a lot more room for people to just like tap in now and see like, all right, what's everybody talking about with this death?
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Yeah, I mean, like, I don't know, again, just thinking back to, like, Glenn dying, like, his eye was, like, popping out of his head and stuff. There are certainly levels to it. And I feel like The Last of Us and the creators are just very purposeful and intentional of, like, how much they're showing at times.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
And I was reading, like, the director of this episode's discussion of it, and at first, like, they didn't have it necessarily, but it felt like they were kind of ducking away from that, showing that violence is what he was saying. And it felt like they needed to show it also because they need to show Ellie seeing it as well. Right.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
I loved it. I thought this was a fantastic episode of television and just the entire series run, of course. All of the innovations, I thought,
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
did a really nice job of making this also stand on its own in a way that they've been very good, I think, in terms of whenever there's a really big scene that's going to be important to the fans, like from season one, that scene when Ellie and Joel are talking to each other after Joel has decided to hand Ellie off to Tommy, like they basically didn't even touch that scene.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
And I think they've just done a good job of like having this like calculus of like, When should we tweak things? When should we stick to the script? And I thought they made a lot of really nice changes with this one.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
Hey, Ben. It's good to be back here. Just a normal episode we're here to talk about. Nothing big happened.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
There was a small part of me that was worried they were going to at least drag this out across two episodes. I feel like there's a version of this show that if it came out on Netflix and there was a binge model for it, they would have ended it with Abby grabbing the golf club or something. And then you'd have to jump to the next one.
The Ringer-Verse
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2: The Gamer Guide | Button Mash
But with the weekly release structure, thankfully, they just kept it to one. And I think that they did it really well in terms of that.