The Russell Brunson Show
No Ads Needed: Kathryn Jones Lish on Mastering Joint Partnerships
Mon, 25 Nov 2024
Recently, I sat down with Kathryn Jones Lish, an expert in joint ventures and partnerships, for an insightful episode of the Marketing Secrets podcast. Kathryn and I dived deep into a tactic that played a pivotal role in building ClickFunnels to $10 million in revenue without a single ad purchase during its first two years: joint ventures. We unpacked how these partnerships can provide a powerful alternative to paid advertising, offering a scalable and sustainable way to drive traffic and sales. Kathryn shared her incredible journey, starting from her dorm room with limited resources to mastering the art of joint ventures. We discussed the framework she developed for creating successful collaborations, including how to identify complementary partners, position your offer effectively, and use step-by-step systems to ensure both parties achieve their goals. Her approach has delivered transformative results, and she offers actionable insights that anyone—from beginners to seasoned entrepreneurs—can implement. Key Takeaways: Understanding Joint Ventures: What they are, how they work, and why they’re a game-changer for traffic and sales. Complementary Partnerships: How to identify partners whose audiences align perfectly with your offer. Breaking News Method: Kathryn’s strategy for standing out and positioning yourself as the go-to choice for collaborations. Repitching for Success: Leveraging results to turn one-time partnerships into ongoing collaborations. Avoiding Common Mistakes: Why proving your offer and pitch matters before approaching a potential partner. Whether you're looking to break free from ad reliance or scale your business to new heights, this episode is packed with strategies that can redefine your approach to growth. Tune in and learn how to make partnerships your secret weapon! And if you want to enjoy the Marketing Secrets Show ad-free, check out https://marketingsecrets.com/adfree Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Chapter 1: What are joint ventures and how do they work?
I'm just like too impatient. I'm like –
and I'm like I don't even what do you mean make friends like make friends and then what like that doesn't seem very friendly to me like I'm gonna make friends with you so that dot dot dot you'll sell my product like it felt a little bit like to me right and I was like I don't like that but I I could I just like I could see the math in it right where I'm like oh I could if I can just find like rather like I like the the goal is always a million dollars like
make a million, make a million, make a million. So I sold 20 units of my $1,000 course. I was at $20,000. So I was like, okay, I could either sell a thousand people into this course and just like pick them off one by one. I was like, or if I just find like 10 people that let me pitch their group and to make a hundred sales per that, it just was like numbers to me.
Chapter 2: How did Kathryn start her journey with joint ventures?
Chapter 3: What is the Breaking News Method for joint ventures?
And you don't have to pay – it's not like Facebook where you're gambling ahead of time. I'm going to give you the money and hopefully make sales. It's like if we make sales – That person makes the sales and then you pay them a cut.
It's so awesome. So it's $0 up front. No risk up front for you. And then you only pay on the back end. It is so sexy. And then it's like, yeah, let's do it. And then you're like, dot, dot, dot. Like how? What do you mean, right? And so like you go look at all the advice and it's like go to networking groups. Develop relationships with people, blah, blah. I'm like very comparable to my other store.
I'm just like too impatient. I'm like –
and I'm like I don't even what do you mean make friends like make friends and then what like that doesn't seem very friendly to me like I'm gonna make friends with you so that dot dot dot you'll sell my product like it felt a little bit like to me right and I was like I don't like that but I I could I just like I could see the math in it right where I'm like oh I could if I can just find like rather like I like the the goal is always a million dollars like
make a million, make a million, make a million. So I sold 20 units of my $1,000 course. I was at $20,000. So I was like, okay, I could either sell a thousand people into this course and just like pick them off one by one. I was like, or if I just find like 10 people that let me pitch their group and to make a hundred sales per that, it just was like numbers to me.
It was like, I got to figure this out. Anyway, and so, again, we'll go into the mechanics later, but long story short, I figured it out how to get people to say yes to me. And it was just the most amazing thing ever because I would go, I'd pitch into a group, and it was a warm group. Like, people who trusted me because their group leader trusted me.
So they'd be like, it's like this selling online event. Like, a lot of people don't know me from Adam, but they're like, because Russell says she's cool, she's cool. Then all of a sudden, people are like, she's the expert. They don't even know who I am. And they're like, Russell said, right? It was the same thing. You go to any group. Catherine's the best at this wobble.
And they're like, I don't know her, but.
he said so sure you know so you go in and i would literally do my webinar to them and we'd pitch it and then we'd get people into our program and we would just track the people that came and we'd sell on the back end and it worked so well that i was like why would i spend money on ads so i just and the beautiful thing about joint ventures is if they work once they're going to work again like if that audience liked it one time they work again and if you set it up the right way
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Chapter 4: How can you identify complementary partners for collaboration?
Chapter 5: What are common mistakes to avoid in joint ventures?
And then I had a second group that came on two, four, six. And so I'd be so like in month one, I'd be like, okay, this is what you need to do. Go do it. And then month three, how did it go? And then Kate, go do this and that. And the whole purpose was to build an offer. And then can you actually go sell it via joint ventures? Anyway, and so we called them sunroom sessions.
And like, and so this campaign that I like did was like, I'm burning everything. everything to the ground. And so essentially it was just like, uh, like we're like, uh, I used to be the funnel girl. Now we're starting on this venture. And the reason I still love funnels, but it was just like rolling, you know, like it was what it was. And you, uh, you know, your soul just calls to other things.
So it was running, like we actually didn't have ads or do adventures to it, but like it was living its life and it was fine. It was like, it's ready to build like the next step of the value ladder anyway. And so that's, I remember you messaged me. You were like, dope. You're like, don't bring your message. He's like, you could sell this. Like you could tell like, don't.
And I was like, don't worry. I'm not selling. Like I'm not doing that. I just remember saying like, don't burn it down.
Good hook. Good story.
Yeah. I was like, it's good. I got him. I like message. That's awesome. Anyway. So we did, we had people come and, uh, and like, and I was telling him back here, like we intentionally invited like any and everyone I wanted to have like really established entrepreneurs and brand new entrepreneurs. Cause I wanted to see where the framework broke. Um, because I,
I just wanted to make sure if I was selling it, it worked. You know, like I, like for me, I just like, I feel like I want to be really, really, really, really sure. Cause if I'm really, really sure, then I can go on and I can like pitch my face for days. But if I don't, then I, I feel like I'm like lying, you know, it's like, it gets a little slimy. So I had people come and it was awesome.
It was so fun. First of all, I love doing events in my house because I don't, I just wake up and I didn't have any furniture. So it was like, guys, come on in. It was like fun. Like our kitchen wasn't even done yet. Like it was crazy. It was so fun that we just like catered food. It was so great. Yeah. But we just had people come, and I was like, okay, step one, great. Step two, great.
And it was really fun because of the people that came, we had 100% success rate for the people that did everything I said. And if you didn't or you tried to improvise or you tried to get crazy, they did not succeed. And so it was like, okay, great. Works. Love it. And anyway, but I think the reason it works is a lot of why all my other principles work.
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Chapter 6: How did ClickFunnels grow without ads using joint ventures?
And I say 20 sales because that's when I started. Like, your pitch is good enough that you got 20 people to say yes, and they can go from there.
Funnel hackers, let me tell you a story that still makes me cringe a little. We were gearing up for a huge launch, funnels were done, landing pages were tight, copy was dialed in, everything was ready to rock. Except for one thing. We were looking for more support people to be able to handle the launch. And we figured, no big deal, we're going to find somebody quickly. But that didn't happen.
We spent weeks trying to hire the right person. We put listings on all the typical sites, but they got buried under a flood of random applicants who weren't even remotely qualified. It delayed our campaign, slowed our momentum, and ended up costing us tens of thousands of dollars in lost sales. That's why now I tell everyone to use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all that you need.
It's built to help you find quality talent fast, especially with sponsored jobs, which put your listings right at the top of the page so it's the first thing the right candidate sees. And here's what's wild. Sponsored jobs on Indeed get 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. Why? Because they're seen by the right people at the right time.
You can get your job post live in minutes and reach people who are actually qualified. No more scrolling through irrelevant resumes, no more wasting time, and there's no monthly fee or contract. You just pay for results. Want to know how fast it works? In the time we've been telling you about this story, 23 hires were made on Indeed around the world. That's how efficient it is.
There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com. That's Indeed.com. So what are you waiting for? Just go to Indeed.com right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash clicks. Terms and conditions apply.
Hiring Indeed is all you need. What's up everybody? Russell Brunson here. I've got something really cool to share with you today that I think is going to speak directly to that fire inside of you. You know, as entrepreneurs, taking risk isn't just part of the journey. It is the journey. It's built into our DNA.
We've all had those moments where an idea hits you out of nowhere and your gut is screaming, go for it. And your brain is like, wait, are we really going to do this? That tension between the bold vision and total fear, that exact leap is what this new podcast season is all about. It's called This is Small Business, and lately I've been hooked.
Seriously, the host, Andrea Marquez, takes you behind the scenes with real founders, people who don't just dip their toe in the water. They cannonballed into the unknown and figured it out midair. And yeah, sometimes they crashed, but other times they absolutely soared. What I love about the show is how raw and unfiltered it is. These aren't sugar-coated startup stories.
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Chapter 7: What strategies can maximize success in joint ventures?
Anyway, so when you have those things, then all of a sudden, it's not like, oh, like, can I like, you know, like, what's it called, mooch? Can I mooch off your audience to pitch my product? It's like, no, like, you'd actually be kind of crazy to say no to me because I have a product that your people need. You're step one, I'm step two.
And I'm better than everyone else at it or different, as you would say, right? Breaking news method. I can help your people get results faster. I have a step-by-step method, which guarantees whatever, as much as I can, their success. And your earning value is infinite because it's mass distributable. Like, would you want to partner together on this?
That's like a pretty alluring offer rather than like, Hey, like you want to be friends and maybe I can use your list and blah, blah, blah. Or like, I'm going to send you a million gifts. That's the other thing I don't like about gifts either. I love gifts. Everyone, if anyone wants to send me a gift, I'm not mad about it, but
um if you send someone gifts for the intention of partnering with them it feels really transactional like all of a sudden you're like oh like it almost feels like you own you you own them something or like oh like when are they gonna come in with their big ask you know like like yeah like here it comes and you're like oh like that's not like how a fun relationship works but again like that guy that sent me that jesus stuff if he would have been like katherine you do this i do this i can extract more bias from your audience
sales done and here's why i'm different from everybody else breaking news method i think we should partner together plus case studies here's all the people i've helped before do it because i have a step-by-step method and i sell it in a course so we can sell infinite amount of things would you want to move forward on this also i'm like hey let's chat that actually makes a lot of sense it's a very sexy offer and then someone can at least say yes or no too because they know what you're doing i'm like i i like still haven't even said thank you which is rude of me but i like haven't even because i'm like oh i don't know what the conversation is going to be
Yeah, what's the intentions here?
I don't know. Like, I don't know. And, again, I'm, like, very grateful. And if he's listening to this, I'm, like, very grateful for the gift. But the reason I haven't responded is because I don't know the intention of the gift. Like, I just don't know. But that's what I love about this, like, step-by-step.
So often with joint ventures, people just, like, don't know how to approach it, which is why there's all this, like, really fluffy, I think kind of fake advice because people don't actually know what to do, which is, like, go to networking groups, make friends, do this, blah, blah, blah. And the reality is.
And bounce on them and ask them to join.
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Chapter 8: How does Kathryn's framework help in achieving partnership success?
And it's actually in a product. We do a 50-50 split on the back end. Is that something you'd like to move forward on? Let them say yes or no to you, right? But I think we just like... build this whole thing up, partnerships, all this thing. And we're like, oh, we got to fly these people out. We got to schmooze them. We got to wind them and dine them.
And like, you know, there's so much status and ego, like the higher and higher up people get. And I get it. Like, it's just what it is. And, and people do create barriers and all these different things, but. What I love about partnerships and what I think like God was good to help me discover is they are so accessible to the beginner.
They're so profitable for the advanced because they have huge lists. But man, people are sleeping on like some of my best joint ventures were with people that had a Facebook group of 500 people. Because if somebody has a Facebook group of 500 people, those 500 people are like loyalists, right?
because they're why are you following this no name it's because they like love they're like one of the ogs you know foundation which means they're even i would i would dare call them a hot audience rather than a warm and so like my conversions would be crazy so people are like oh well i don't pitch them they have a tiny group i'm like go to the tiny groups like because i would just you know make like 10 30 50 000 just like you know like that it's a 90 minute pitch
So awesome. And so that's what I love about this concept is like, yes, the concepts still apply at like very, very high levels, which again, like we've had clients in the eight figures, nine figures, but the reality is that the framework works at the beginning, but you need to make sure that you can prove you have a tangible result. You're a breaking news method. You actually have case studies.
You can prove that you've helped people step by step and it's in mass distributable. And if you have those things, then you're, I call it like joint venture ready. And so, um, anyway, but I think it's really cool. And I think where people can go wrong sometimes is, is they try to approach a joint venture without being joint venture ready.
They're just like, Oh, well, no, you should, you should just do it. And it's like, yeah. Or even like a lot of like established entrepreneurs, like, like you, right. Or like whoever, like, they're like, no, like I'm good. I'm good. So like, I'm just going to pitch. And so they try to do a joint venture with like a brand new product, but they've never pitched it before.
And I'm like, just prove it once that opportunity. Yes.
Because that's like, you may have one shot.
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