Insects and pain and The Selfish Gene turns 50

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The Science Show 54 min 8 speakers 8 chapters transcribed 3 months ago

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Do insects feel pain and what does it mean for animal rights?

Robin Williams 0:00

ABC Listen, podcasts, radio, news, music and more. I'm David Maher, host of Late Night Live on Radio National.

0:11

Very suave, erudite kind of guy.

James Cleverley 0:14

We're here to surprise, delight and maybe enrage you from time to time. We go where our curiosity leads.

Don Taylor 0:21

Let's talk crazy. Let's act crazy. Let's be crazy because then the enemy doesn't know what you're thinking.

James Cleverley 0:27

Late Night Live, four new shows a week on ABC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.

Robin Williams 0:37

Time for another science show. I'm Robin Williams. And I'm Belinda Smith. And I know, Bel, that you've been dealing with that cruel bastard René Descartes. Yeah, he truly was a heinous human being. But I've only been dealing with him in the interests of caring for animals. Fair enough. And we're connected in all sorts of surprising ways, even painful ones.

1:06

MUSIC PLAYS Thank you.

Robin Williams 1:12

And we shall ponder briefly the 50th birthday of the selfish gene a little later. But we begin with this quick trip into and around your brilliant brain with another book, just published with an unlikely title, You're Dangerously Well. It refers to cases of patients whose malady isn't obvious and whose treatment should include tender, loving care, not just industrial meds. And the man behind the book is Professor Roger Rees of Adelaide, famous for treating drastic head knocks. And your title, Professor, Dangerously Well, what does that mean?

James Cleverley 1:47

What it means is that a patient sees a doctor... or someone akin to that who says, my God, you're looking well. But they fail to see what is, in fact, hidden. So in this case of this woman, Anne Marks, with a severe salivary gland cancer, which was never identified, she was told, look, you're extremely well. I mean, you have low blood pressure. You've never smoked. You don't have diabetes. My God, you're well. But in fact, she had a life-threatening tumor, which ended when it was excised in her not being able to speak, not being able to swallow, breathing through a trachea, and being peg-fed. And she was given six months to live. She, in fact, traveled the world for the next 14 years. But the initial description

James Cleverley 2:41

From my point of view, and it would have been because it's an Oliver Sacks term, as you would well know, Robin, she was in fact dangerously well.

Robin Williams 2:49

And when someone looks at you and says, oh, you are looking well these days, and I know that I'm sometimes looking like a bit of a cadaver. Never, Robin. A walking corpse. I mean... You prefer the idea that there's nothing wrong with you because there's nothing more tedious suddenly than having to go through medical procedures. And sometimes you wonder, and you talked about in the launch just now, the robotic nature of some of the medical measures, whether they're just covering their arses, making sure that they're giving the drugs just in case.

James Cleverley 3:25

It's reinforcing their end status. It's that element to it because they're not like, well, sacks, people who spend time with the patient. If we watch a film of sacks with those people who in the film Awakenings, what does he do? He spends time with them. He becomes them. He becomes congruent with the person he's with.

Robin Williams 3:48

Just so happens that film, Awakenings, with Oliver Sacks being portrayed by my namesake. That's right, yes. The comedian who's no longer with us, who paradoxically, he was looking well, but he had a neurological problem.

James Cleverley 4:03

Yes. We were all carrying these neurological problems. I mean, people say to me, oh, my God, you're looking fit. Well, two months ago, I had a heart attack. And I'd driven myself to my own surgery, not feeling too well that morning, and the nurse said... I think you should be on your way to the cardiac unit. You're looking unwell. Yes, I'm looking unwell, you know. That's a relief, yes. It is that, and one of the problems that we have is that our practice in Goolwa is a country, I mean, there's about eight or ten doctors there now, and the place is full up with people all the time. Where is that? It's a mighty place. It's at the mouth of the Murray. It's where the Murray flows into the Southern Ocean. I went there by chance 25, 30 years ago to set up the outreach program one weekend for the Health Commission for people with severe brain injury.