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The Second Captains Podcast

Messi Delivers, The England Plan, Ken Early's America

18 Jun 2026

Transcription

Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.

Chapter 1: What were Ken's highlights from the World Cup so far?

7.642 - 13.389

It's the second time it's gone on. They never got on. They never got on. They never got on, those boys.

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13.409 - 16.013 Eoghan McDevitt

The second captain's world service.

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16.053 - 24.663 Ken Early

It is not war and death and famine. It's not that at all. It's the opposite of that. It's to persuade there's a world outside of that. That's why sport's important.

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27.387 - 68.231

Yeah, you can laugh. That was the war call. Maradona turns like a little eel and comes away from trouble. Little squat man leads us for dead. There's Beckham, there's the ball. Welcome everyone to your World Service World Cup taster. You might think Ken is having a load of fun over there covering this thing and you might just be right.

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68.511 - 76.587 Ken Early

Just hear an arrowhead on under the big sky. Oh yeah! Yeah!

76.607 - 85.745

Yeah! That was Ken in Kansas City losing his mind having just watched Leo Messi deliver another all-time great World Cup moment scoring a hat-trick mere days before his 39th birthday.

87.628 - 92.678 Miguel Delaney

González para Messi! Messi, Messi, Messi! Goal!

95.813 - 106.347

It has been pointed out to me that Ken letting it all go at Arrowhead Stadium and really wearing his heart on his sleeve contrasted sharply with myself and Murph trying not to wake anyone up while recording from home at half past four in the morning.

107.17 - 129.473 Ken Early

Yeah! Lionel Messi. I'm looking around at the crowd of people wearing Argentina jerseys, all of whom have Messi on the back. It's just like the most bizarre, giant, cult-like event possibly that's ever happened. I've never seen so many people wearing the same outfit. Well, to be fair, I have. The last time I was watching a Lionel Messi game in the World Cup was in Qatar. That was pretty good.

Chapter 2: How did Messi perform in his latest World Cup match?

273.109 - 277.677 Ken Early

It's just uncanny. It's unbelievable. Okay, Ken.

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278.238 - 299.68 Chris Williamson

It's astonishing. Yeah, we, I suppose, need to understand here that people will be listening to this and will not have seen this game. Maybe they'll have seen the goals in brief on Instagram or somewhere. But, like, let's just talk through how good he was here, how good the goals were, how freely he was moving. I mean, it's not that he's sprinting around the best.

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299.7 - 304.965 Chris Williamson

He hasn't been doing that for a long number of years. But, I mean, he still looks like a footballer out there.

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304.945 - 320.575 Ken Early

Oh yeah, well I mean, the thing about football is it's a sport where you only need to move fast enough. You know, it's not really necessarily about like raw pace, although raw pace is obviously a great thing to have if you've got it. But it's not really about that. It's just about like, can you move fast enough

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320.555 - 351.022 Ken Early

Especially if your opponent is moving in the wrong direction, which is something Messi has always been able to do. He just has such confidence. It's not like this guy has ever really lacked confidence. But if I think back to Messi, it seems incredible. I remember the first time I ever actually saw him live in the World Cup was at Soccer City in Johannesburg in 2010.

352.505 - 378.06 Ken Early

Sorry, I know you asked me to talk about the game I've just seen, and I'm talking about a game from fucking 16 years ago, but bear with me. And I remember the impression that he made then was like absolutely electric pace, like a little electric mouse, like sort of buzzing around. And like nobody could handle him. He could sort of blow past everybody. It was ridiculous to see.

378.08 - 400.952 Ken Early

Now, he's obviously not that anymore. I remember that game. I think Argentina scored five on the day. Did Higuain score a hat trick? Messi didn't score. Messi didn't score in the entirety of that World Cup. Like he did score, I'm pretty sure his first World Cup appearance was as a sub in 2006 against Serbia in a game that Argentina won 6-0 and he came off the bench and scored almost immediately.

401.373 - 404.241 Ken Early

That was like his introduction to the World Cup and then

404.221 - 432 Ken Early

Peckerman the coach didn't use him in the quarterfinal against Germany they end up going out on penalties then into in 2010 when he was like in he was already like the best player in the world I mean he'd won the Ballon d'Or twice I guess by that store that he was to win it that year for the second time and was like and had begun scoring at the phenomenal rate that you know that we now kind of associate with him and didn't score at all in the

Chapter 3: What insights did Ken share about Messi's age and performance?

667.286 - 682.94 Miguel Delaney

They were a bit chaotic. It looked like, once again, the first good team they played. Because this is the thing about Tuchel's time so far. It's basically been two years of build-up. We didn't really have a good idea of what this team was about. There was one really convincing performance against Serbia in September last year. So we didn't really know.

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682.98 - 697.657 Miguel Delaney

And this looked like it was going to be the same old thing as the last few tournaments. Good as they are, as much as they've evolved. Another game where they seeded midfield to a technically superior side and another game where it was a good team they were playing and they were going to struggle. And instead they just kind of swept all that away.

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697.978 - 719.705 Miguel Delaney

The 10 minutes after halftime, I would say, was England's best spell of tournament football. I have to say, I struggle to remember when, maybe even in the 90s and some of those epic games. It could have been 6-2, 7-2. I thought they were that good. I mean, there were still a few issues that lingered, I would say, and they could have given it away again before Rashford came off the bench to score.

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719.946 - 736.425 Miguel Delaney

But that kind of speaks to two other massive strengths that England have in this tournament. I mean, one is the quality off the bench, even if they haven't brought a Cole Palmer. Another, then, I suppose, the set pieces, which, as Anthony Barry said in that, or acknowledged in that extraordinary first half, or sorry, half-time interview...

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736.405 - 755.514 Miguel Delaney

like they said pieces kept them in the game but they're going to be a weapon in entire games like this there are a few caveats i would say one That spell after half-time, that came from really aggressive pressing. Like, you know, Barry had been going on about nervous energy. This was like kind of, you know, an aggressive intensity. I'm not sure you can do that in a stadium that isn't closed.

756.115 - 775.586 Miguel Delaney

That's going to be a big issue. And the other, I suppose, is good as Croatia are. I mean... They're not that good. No, exactly. I mean, when you've got a few of their players, I mean, it's time for Green Grove, isn't it, really? Like... The spell after halftime did coincide with Modric being looking so exhausted he had to go off before the hour.

776.267 - 784.479 Miguel Delaney

There are caveats there, but as far as the start, other than obvious questions in defense and maybe some of the... It was impressive.

785.32 - 797.698 Ken Early

I'm amazed you were so impressed by it. This is like two totally different planets here. I'm just like, what are they doing out there? And then they kind of...

797.881 - 806.415 Miguel Delaney

Do you not think when they needed focus, they found it? Has anyone really put in a truly convincing performance yet in this tournament? Yes, Miguel. It's also one of the harder opening games, to be fair.

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