The Tucker Carlson Show
Matt Walsh: Dave Smith/Douglas Murray Debate, Transgenderism, and What It Really Means to Be a Man
Wed, 30 Apr 2025
Matt Walsh: Any country that can’t function without American aid has no right to exist. (00:00) Should Gay Couples Be Able to Adopt? (10:12) The Effects of the LGBT Agenda on Western Society (19:56) The Destruction of Gender Roles (30:16) Walsh’s Advice on How to Raise Your Kids (42:42) The Modern Obsession With Video Games (44:35) Should Marijuana Be Legal? (59:43) What It Really Means to Be a Man (1:20:00) Is the Manosphere Movement Gay? Paid partnerships with: iTrust Capital: Get $100 funding bonus at https://www.iTrustCapital.com/Tucker ExpressVPN: Go to https://ExpressVPN.com/Tucker and find out how you can get 4 months of ExpressVPN free! Beam: Get 47% off for a limited time using the code TUCKER at https://ShopBeam.com/Tucker Masa Chips: Get 25% off with code TUCKER at https://masachips.com/tucker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Chapter 1: Should Gay Couples Be Able to Adopt?
Okay, so I'm going to, I'm not an ex all that much, but I do read you. And sometimes I read your tweets and I'm like, Matt Walsh, ladies and gentlemen, spinning people up. Here's one. We've been saying for many years that gay adoption and surrogacy should be illegal. Now everyone else seems to be catching on. This is an abomination.
We've been saying for many years that gay adoption is an abomination.
I've never heard anybody say that.
Wow, we're just diving right in.
We're diving right in. Day adoption is an abomination. Yeah, well, I think there I was referring to social conservatives because social conservatives still somehow get a bad rap. So, you know, so-called social conservatives, even among other conservatives and other people on the right, it seems to me. But so when I say we, I mean like so-called social conservatives.
I've never heard them say that. I've never heard anybody. I think I agree with what you said, but I'm not. I don't think I've ever heard a single person say that. Everyone seems to be afraid to say that.
Yeah, most people are. That's why I think, but, you know, so-called social conservatism is, that's why it's not popular even on the right.
Can I ask you, is there anything more hated on the right than social conservatism?
I don't think so.
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Chapter 2: What Are the Effects of the LGBT Agenda on Society?
Or we should look at the way that... human society was structured for thousands of years and we should probably consider that they were right about a lot of that stuff you know maybe not everything right maybe not everything but there are just certain basic civilizational truths that we have moved away from in recent decades But I don't think there was any good reason to move away from them.
And so if human beings did something a certain way for literally millennia in every civilization that we know of, It's probably right. I mean, there's probably a lot to be said for it. Again, not in every case, but in most cases.
It's worth pondering anyway. It tells you something if, right, if every civilization, none of which that we know of, had contact with each other, came to the same conclusions. Exactly.
So it's something like the, you know, gay adoption. That, and this isn't the only argument against it, but I think it is a worthwhile argument that... There's never been a society anywhere on earth, anywhere, period, where they have had two men in a romantic relationship starting a family. That's just that's never existed. It's always been a man and a woman start a family.
Or in certain ancient civilizations and even some primitive ones today, you might have a man and several women, you might have polygamy. That's a pretty common feature, I would say. It's certainly common, but you never had, and why do you have polygamy? I don't support polygamy, but there was a logic to it, especially in ancient times. You got to create people.
The whole point of the family is to make children and care for them. And a family that's headed up by two gay men, that's why it's an abomination.
Well, it never happened before, and now it's happening, and that's why we call it progress, right? This is progress. It's something that's never been done.
Well, it's progress in the way that cancer progresses. So when I hear about progressivism... I think of progressivism. It is progress. So we're at stage four gay right now, would you say? Oh, yeah. Full on stage four. Yeah. Terminal. It's a terminal case.
Yeah, I figure why not just jump right into it. So I think you make an obvious and very fair and smart point. We should pay attention to the way things have always been done because maybe we can learn something. It's like discarding it all. French Revolution style doesn't end well. I totally agree. But what's the more affirmative, detailed case against it?
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Chapter 3: How Are Gender Roles Being Destroyed?
Yeah, well, I think that there are a couple of things. First of all, it's interesting to note that when this conversation about gay parenthood first started really in earnest like 10 years ago, most of the conversation was focused on adoption and gay men want to adopt. But now what's happened is there's been a shift. And now you've got a lot of these gay couples that are turning to surrogacy.
So they're renting wombs. They're purchasing the body parts of women and renting them, using them like an Airbnb rental. Wait, I thought we got rid of slavery. Yeah, I would have thought, but this is exactly, this is in a very literal sense, the objectification of a human being, treating them like an object, using them as an object. So it's just interesting.
There was a study done recently, a survey a couple of years ago, actually, that found that it was like 60 plus percent of gay couples, when they think about parenting, they would prefer surrogacy. So it's a slight of hand trick you see on the left a lot where they want to bring about some social change and they present an argument for it. But then once they get what they want, they abandon that.
And then you kind of, you figure out what they actually wanted. So it's kind of like adoption has given way to surrogacy. And then the whole argument is, which I never bought, which is that we're rescuing kids who are in these terrible situations in foster care, that's out the window because these are not kids that you're rescuing. You're creating them.
Rather than rescuing a kid from an unfortunate situation, you're creating them to be in an unfortunate situation from birth, which is a different thing. So that's the first thing.
And the second thing is that even if we're talking... But would you concede that... one upside to a collapsing post-industrial economy is there are a ton of poor people who are willing to have babies for profit. I don't know that I would call that an upside.
I'm just like, this is so like... People don't take three steps back.
Like if this were happening and if Dickens were writing about this in the 1850s, you'd be like, wow, you know, London's a very screwed up place where we're taking advantage of the poor. Like that's the step beyond prostitution. I mean, it really is treating someone, as you said correctly, as an object.
But there's also the fundamental point, whether it's surrogacy or adoption... the fundamental point is what does the child have a right to? We keep hearing about this right to parenthood. I mean, you have gay couples now that are demanding insurance cover fertility treatments as if the reason why two men can't make a baby is because of fertility problems. No, it's because of the laws of nature.
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Chapter 4: What Advice Does Walsh Offer for Raising Kids?
Rather than talking about the right of the parent, let's talk about the right of the child. This applies to so many of them. This applies to abortion. This applies to a lot of topics. What does the child have a right to? I would say a child has a right to a mother and a father. A child has a right to the
basic fundamental setup that billions of kids throughout history have had, which is a mother and a father. Now, if through the course of events, through no one's fault, that is taken away from a child, I mean, you can have a parent that dies, you end up with a single parent, you can have a divorce, which I think is terrible, but it's not supposed to work that way.
So if you have a child in foster care, you're looking for a mother and a father and to just say, okay, well, we'll give this child to two dads. You're basically giving up on that child. You're saying, well, yeah, we couldn't find the right setup for you. So instead you're getting this. And I just reject that. I reject that totally. And I also think frankly that,
A lot of people won't like this, but I think we've passed the point.
Yeah, right.
No one likes anything that we're saying. A child being in foster care is far from an ideal scenario. It's very, very sad. A child going to two gay parents, I think, is worse. I think it's easily worse, actually.
Why? Why?
Um, it's just more disordered. It's more confusing for the child. Um, again, neither, neither scenario was good. We don't like either thing, but, um, I, I don't see going to, you know, gay parents as an improvement over the, the, the, what they had before.
Do we know that it screws kids up or we just sort of intuitively know it?
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Chapter 5: Why Is There a Modern Obsession with Video Games?
So when you were born, the AIDS crisis, AIDS, was sort of in its early years. And there were famous people who had AIDS, who died of AIDS, who lied about why they were dying because they didn't want to admit that they were gay. So that was the world you were born into. Now being gay is like an advantage in college admissions and a lot of schools and in hiring. So like it's moved completely.
It's like the opposite of what it was in 40 years. Right. Why do you think that happened? And what do you think its effects are? Uh,
Chapter 6: Should Marijuana Be Legal?
Yeah, I think that it's the collapse of, well, it's just this war on, it's kind of what we started with. It's this war on normalcy, on civilization, really. It's part of the anti-family agenda, the anti-human agenda. And I think that, and that's always been there. Why did it catch on, though, to such an extent?
I think that the side that was supposed to stand up for the family and stand up for civilization largely failed and abdicated their responsibility to do so. You know, conservatives, the church has just largely failed. Not even failed, not even tried, really. Not even tried. Why is that? Fear, cowardice. Yeah. hypocrisy.
I mean, hypocrisy in the actual sense, in the literal sense of not someone who says something and does another, but someone who claims to believe something they don't, which is what actual hypocrisy is. And so we have a lot of hypocrites on the right and in the church, unfortunately, who are just claiming to believe things they don't really believe.
And so I think that the answer is, it's like, why don't Why aren't there enough pastors in any church, in any denomination, standing up and talking about these issues and leading on these issues? And the answer is, well, there's a lot of cowards, but also a certain portion of them don't really believe it. I mean, they don't believe –
It's like whether or not they really believe in God is a question. So I think that that's a part of it too.
What do you think the effect of it has been? Not just the acceptance of homosexuality, but the celebration of it. I remember hearing 30 years ago when this was gathering steam, people saying, well, it's not a threat to you. Gays aren't going to break into your house and forcibly make you gay or something like, why do you care? And I thought that, you know, kind of made sense to me at the time.
But there's a sense that's just not true, actually, that it did have a big effect on everybody else. Do you think that?
It certainly did because... Because it's always a lie, obviously, when they say, oh, this isn't, we just want to do what we want to do and we're not, it won't affect you and we don't need you to be involved. This is just what we're doing in the privacy of our own homes. That was a good argument, though, don't you think?
In theory, in principle, it's a good argument. I'm just saying as a kind of matter of slogans, you know, like, that's better than just do it for Nike or have a Coke and a smile. That's like a really effective ad campaign for Americans because that matches the American instinct, like, you know, live and let live.
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Chapter 7: What Does It Mean to Be a Man?
To now, well, they're literally marching in the street, you know, in leather bondage gear, like flaunting in front of confused children standing there. Having sex on the street, actually. Yeah, right. Engaged in sexual acts. And even worse than that, they're going into the school systems. They're putting this stuff in the school. They're trying to tell my kids.
My kids aren't in the school system, but, you know, they're trying to tell our kids.
Do the authorities know your kids aren't in the school system?
Yeah.
I'm in Tennessee, so we still have that right in Tennessee so far. But then they start going into the school system and they start promoting this. They start trying to tell our kids that you should also tolerate this and accept it and embrace it and celebrate it. There's this kind of...
you know what what they're telling kids in school about homosexuality for example is not just biology there's a moral message they're giving them a moral message and the moral message is this is okay there's nothing wrong with it it's this is you know a gay couple is equal in every way to a straight couple these are just different variations you know it's a it's morally neutral that's their message that's uh that's ideology that's not biology and um
and once you start doing that then it's like very clear how this affects me you know but how does it affect the society well it fundamentally transforms society and our basic priorities how we live what matters to us so we're not positive that cryptocurrency is the future of finance but we do know that what we have now is broken and dangerous debt has never been higher in this country
Many of our so-called leaders are getting rich serving you. It's a scam. So where does it go? Well, thankfully, there are options. Donald Trump has said repeatedly he wants the United States to be the crypto capital of the world. He's already created the Crypto Advisory Council and recently signed an executive order to establish a Bitcoin strategic reserve.
This could give normal people an alternative to the government's failing system and, frankly, to the U.S. dollar. I'm not saying put all your money outside the U.S. dollar, but, like, don't be crazy. Don't be stupid here. You can see where it's going. So the people at I Trust Capital can help you get in to this. It's complicated for people who aren't following it. They make it easy.
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Chapter 8: Is the Manosphere Movement Gay?
They were so basic, so fundamental that you didn't have a word for it. If you go back to 1700 and use the term gender roles... To anyone. They're not going to have any idea what the hell you're talking about. Even though their entire society is structured around it. Exactly. And this is true even now. If you go outside of the kind of
liberal western bubble which i've done which i've done once when we were doing what is a woman i went to we went to kenya we talked to the messiah tribe in in kenya did they know what a woman was they didn't know what a woman was they were confused by the question not because they didn't know the answer but because they couldn't possibly understand why it would even be asked right um
But then I remember a lot of this didn't make it in the movie because it wasn't totally connected. But talking about gender roles with them, and again, they had no idea what that term even meant. But their whole society is completely structured around it. It was, if you're a man, this is what you do. If you're a woman, this is what you do. And that's it. And...
And I remember asking one of the women, I was in her hut, which is actually made of cow dung. And it's a one-room hut and they all sleep on one bed, mud floor. And she was telling me what she does all day as the woman of the house, which is she takes care of the house, she takes care of the kids. And I asked her if she was happy doing this. And she laughed at me.
It was such a ridiculous question. Because of course she is. And then I asked about depression. And this might be in the movie. I said, you know, where I come from, a lot of people are depressed. And one of the guys said to me, well, we don't have that here. We don't do that. We don't have depression. That's not a thing here. Of course, there's unhappiness. It's not like a utopia.
I wouldn't want to live there, to be perfectly clear about it. But you do notice that in these societies that are structured around gender roles, there's a lot of anxiety and hangups that they don't have because they know they have a basic concept of who they are and what they're supposed to do.
Well, they're not at war with nature every day.
Right.
You can't beat nature. Right. If I go out into a blizzard with my boxer shorts, I don't care what my resolve level is or my courage. It's like I'm going to freeze to death because you can't beat nature because it's bigger than you because God created it.
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