A DNA match. A suspect identified. A chance for long-overdue justice. But instead of an arrest, the investigation takes a shocking turn.With Hawai’i PD refusing to act, and prosecutors refusing to acknowledge the full weight of the evidence, the truth hangs in limbo. The system that once rushed to convict Ian and Shawn Schweitzer now drags its feet when faced with the real perpetrator. And then—before any charges can be filed—the suspect takes his secrets to the grave.What happens next will determine whether justice is finally served… or buried along with him.__You can view the materials referenced in this episode at https://threepodcast.com/chapter-8-probable-cause/Please consider donating to Ian’s GoFundMe at https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-ian-schweitzer-after-wrongful-conviction. You can visit www.hawaiiinnocenceproject.org and click the donate button to support them, their work and their clients. Amanda Knox’s new memoir, Free: My Search for Meaning is available at www.amandaknox.com. If you have any information about the abduction and murder of Dana Ireland, we encourage you to contact the Hawai’i Innocence Project at [email protected]. You can also contact Crime Stoppers at (808) 961-8300 and the Hawai’i Police Department at (808) 961-2380 or visit their website Hawaiipolice.gov to submit a tip.
Chapter 1: What is the role and oath of district attorneys in the justice system?
Now, district attorneys, like all lawyers in the United States of America, take an oath that allows them to practice law. According to the National District Attorneys Association, DAs are tasked with ensuring justice is served by, quote, "...prosecuting individuals accused of committing crimes."
And in my experience, DAs are typically eager to do just that, especially when they have strong evidence, like a DNA match, and especially when the crime is as brutal and shocking as the murder of Dana Ireland. But with wrongful convictions, the egos of law enforcement come into play. DAs like to protect their conviction record and are too often reluctant to admit they got it wrong.
And it's hard not to note that in this case, had they brought Albert Laurel Jr. to trial, there would have been massive media attention on the fact that he'd acted alone, shining a persistent spotlight on the three wrongful prosecutions that preceded it.
This might explain why, during this Zoom call between the judge, the Hawaii Innocence Project, and the DA's office, the prosecution is not forthcoming about what they knew and when, and the judge is forced to press them for information.
Ken says that on the Zoom call, Shannon Kagawa is present, but Michael Kagame is tuning in via speakerphone through Shannon, which the judge isn't exactly thrilled about.
You know, I have him on the phone near the speaker because he's at a CLE. And the judge said, so you're telling me that a CLE is more important? Then what we're talking about today? Then he's just like, okay, fine, let's just do this. He said, now I want to know, did you guys know that this guy was dead when we were in court yesterday? And I was asking where he was at, and you were telling me.
Did you know he was dead then, Your Honor? We cannot comment on an ongoing investigation. So it's almost like you got the prosecutors and corporate counsel telling them to take the Fifth, right? But this is like their way of taking the Fifth. She might as well say, you know, I can't incriminate myself. That's what I'm hearing. Now, she's saying I can't comment on an ongoing investigation.
What I'm hearing is I have a constitutional right under the Fifth Amendment not to incriminate myself, and my attorney's advising me not to answer this question. And so the judge told him, and Mike, he said, now you got an ethical obligation, a duty of candor to the court. And that means not even misleading a judge. Because when we left Thursday, like I said, we took a vote.
The majority of the people in our meeting was like, he's in custody. Because that's the impression they were trying to give. That's misleading. Because you're thinking ongoing investigation, I can't comment on it, that they may have him in protective custody under an assumed name, right, for his protection or whatever.
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Chapter 2: Why are prosecutors reluctant to admit wrongful convictions?
According to Chief Moskowitz, investigators asked Laurel to come in for an interview, to which he agreed. And during this hour or so interview, they obtained a direct swab for comparison from him. At the time, investigators say they didn't arrest him because they believed there was insufficient evidence to prove he intentionally or knowingly contributed to the death of Dana Ireland.
Once Laurel indicated he wanted to leave, they let him. And shortly thereafter, Albert Laurel Jr. died by suicide, taking whatever truth he carried with him to his grave, leaving the same cloud of doubt hanging over Ian and Sean Schweitzer. Knowing everything we know up until this point, it feels like Laurel Jr. was the key to finally solving Dana's case once and for all and getting true justice.
If Hawaii PD had arrested him instead of letting him leave that day. Chief Moskowitz, however, doesn't view this situation as black and white.
The second question I want to address is what would have happened if Laurel had been arrested on or around July 19th when we brought him in for a consensual interview? Would he still be alive today? So the answer to that, again, is a little bit complicated. We have to take a look at what would have happened if we had made an arrest without probable cause.
As any good attorney, defense attorney or prosecutor or police officer will tell you, if you make an arrest without probable cause, anything that follows that arrest, whether it be a confession or physical evidence or the identity of another witness, anything that arises out of that arrest is going to be challenged based on what we knew during the arrest.
So we faced the very real possibility that if we had arrested Mr. Laurel without probable cause, that anything we gathered as a result of that process could be excluded, which is absolutely not what we wanted.
Probable cause. A phrase you're going to hear a lot from the chief of police, as well as the Hawaii Innocence Project. It's a principle enshrined in the Fourth Amendment.
The Fourth Amendment applies in Hawaii like it does anywhere else in the United States. I mean, this is not like, OK, the Fourth Amendment stops in California and can't cross the Pacific. So in other words, the meaning of probable cause, the definition of probable cause under the Fourth Amendment is the same. But the DNA, everybody knows DNA, once it's a match, is probable cause.
I mean, they didn't have a match in Ian's case.
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Chapter 3: What happened during the Zoom call between the judge, Hawaii Innocence Project, and DA's office?
We're happy to put that extra set of eyes, or in your case, extra set of ears, on the case that could give us a perspective we hadn't considered or could lead to something that, you know, essentially, regardless of what the resource is, we want to get to the end of that trail and find out where the facts lead so we can get some sort of, not only justice for the Ireland's, but closure for the community here.
One, I think he's full of shit. I mean, it's easy to say that now when it's already out. But I don't see how the prosecutor's saying we can't come in on an investigation and the chief is telling you what, it's not an ongoing investigation. So somebody's lying, right? If the chief is saying he could have called me and I would have told him this and all this stuff, right?
then why are the prosecutors telling us that somehow, because it's not the prosecutor's investigation, it's the police investigation. So if he's willing to share that information, why is the prosecutor saying that they can't do it? And so that's the question that needs to be asked of them.
As far as I'm concerned, to me it's more that hoodwink and bamboozle stuff that the chief been doing when you listen to him talk. Because he could have been a used car salesman, because he's a slickster, man. I mean, listen to Wade. If you listen to Wade's talking, you better start reading in between the lines because he's very careful not to tell a blatant lie.
But it's easy for the chief to sit up here and give an interview to a podcast interviewers. write anyone after he knows he's released a name and be like, oh, I'm transparent. Now, there had to be communication. This is the reason why if you look at our subpoena, we're like sending us all the emails, text messages between Hilo, the FBI, and everybody else so we know really what was going on.
Because it's easy to get out front and say, hey, I was Mr. Transparent. You also never called me. He's calling around to the morgue and all that, making all this work for himself. And the reason why Lawson's doing that is because he knows you're going to lie.
At the end of the day, there are a whole lot of questions we wish we could get answered, truthfully. But even so, there are so many things we know to be true. First, Ian Schweitzer spent over 20 years behind bars for a crime he didn't commit.
And if we're using the same logic Hawaii PD used when determining if they had probable cause to arrest Albert Laurel Jr., then you could say Ian and Sean's arrests arguably lacked probable cause. Second, there is factually zero forensic evidence connecting Ian Schweitzer, Sean Schweitzer, or Frank Pauline Jr. to the murder of Dana Ireland.
All the prosecution ever had were Frank's obviously unreliable statements. Chief Ben Moskowitz wasn't part of the original investigation into Dana Ireland's murder. And even as of today, he is not the primary investigator on this case. More like the spokesperson. But he assured us during our interview with him that those in charge are on it.
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