Chapter 1: What recent pay issue did RTÉ address regarding Sean Rocks?
First this morning, this week representatives from RTE appeared before the Oireachtas Media Committee to answer questions in relation to another pay issue that has arisen at the broadcaster.
The case of the late presenter Sean Rocks was raised by a number of politicians after it emerged his partner Catherine Bailey met the Media Minister Patrick O'Donovan over the classification of his work during his time with RTE. For a number of years Mr Rocks was primarily classified as a producer with the organisation, even though his role was as presenter of the nightly arts programme Arena.
RTE Director General Kevin Backhurst was asked about the matter during the committee meeting and said that he had sympathy with the situation, but that many people across the organisation have a core job and are also in receipt of a presenter's allowance. Well, our reporter Brian O'Connell joins me. Good morning, Brian. Morning, David.
Chapter 2: How did Catherine Bailey first meet Sean Rocks?
You've been speaking to Catherine Bailey, Brian, in her first public interview on this issue.
Well, Sean Rocks died suddenly in July of last year at the age of 64. He was the father of two. He was a partner of some 22 years to Catherine. And we did hear this week his family are questioning the financial impact now of his contractual situation with RTE.
They're questioning whether he was correctly classified and what impact this may have had on his pension and on various entitlements which now pass to his family. We'll come back to that. But first, I asked Sean's partner, Catherine, to tell me when she and Sean first met.
Chapter 3: What were the circumstances surrounding Sean Rocks' unexpected death?
Well, we met in Limerick and I had just finished my master's. So I had a mutual friend from college, actually, who invited me to an opening of a restaurant just around the corner from Lyric FM. And unbeknownst to me, I had been aware of Sean, but I didn't really know of him, really.
And when we went into the restaurant, I was introduced to Sean straight away and we just hit it off like a house on fire. We had so much in common. He was attentive. He was warm. He was magical.
Chapter 4: What financial concerns does Sean Rocks' family have after his passing?
He was a magical man, a beautiful, warm, kind individual and a beautiful soul.
And you built a life together.
We built a huge life together, a lovely, wonderful life together. We had an awful lot in common. We both loved the arts, music, you name it. I had also done actor training and so had Sean. So we could talk at length about all those areas. And we felt like kindred spirits, that feeling you have when you feel you've met your soulmate. We had that and
Then just lovely, just lovely existence, lovely, simple life, the simple everyday. And then the children came along and it was, we were just very happy in our simplicity, you know, very ordinary people.
On the day when Sean died, it was a shock to everyone. It was a shock to listeners, to all his colleagues in RT, to his family, I'm sure. But I mean, for you, it must have been, I'd imagine, the most traumatic day of your life.
It was beyond traumatic. It was very, very, very distressing.
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Chapter 5: How did Catherine Bailey respond to the classification of Sean's work?
And Even talking about it today is very hard. It was so sudden. We thought we'd come out of the woods with his health issues and we felt we were on the upward trajectory and that we were out of the woods, you know, and then for it to happen the way it did so suddenly, it was very, very shocking and very distressing for me and the children. And it's even hard, like I say, to talk about it today.
And one of the worst things You know, what could do is have to tell your children that their dad has passed away.
And what happened next, Brian?
Well, as we all know, after someone dies, David, there is the very difficult task of trying to get their affairs in order. And this is what Catherine set about doing. Now, it was during this process, Catherine realised that to her mind, the pension numbers didn't seem to reflect all of Sean's career in RTE.
I was hardly home a day and it struck me how deep in admin I'd have to get in, you know, be part of and get into. And slowly but surely, just taking over the reins in his very shocked and very grief stricken state between between the utilities and whatnot. I got around to looking at the pension side of things and moved to HR.
And they got back to me in due course saying, quoting a number that seemed completely out of whack to Sean's earnings. And I had to question it naturally. And I said, this is maybe an error. I think you're wrong. This is so out of whack with this is so these numbers are incorrect. And then I was reassured rather coolly in a very, you know, kind of clinical letter that, no, this is it.
So the next port of call was to go and try and contact the Board of Management of RTE, which I did. I got everyone's name on there, including Mr. Baccarat's, of course. And I said, what is this? I'm completely at a loss as to work out how you worked out these numbers.
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Chapter 6: What challenges did Catherine face regarding Sean's pension and entitlements?
They're really incredibly low and wrong. They're just wrong. And then I said, can you please clear this up for me? Explain this to me. Can anything be done by this? This is clearly a misclassification of the man. Can you just explain it? And nothing. Tumbleweed for a number of weeks. Culture Night happened and there was a special to Sean. I met Mr. Backers at that point.
But nothing, you know, there was no interaction about what the matter at hand. And then I appealed again in October saying and November, please can certainly went into October. Can someone clarify this? I want to get these affairs sorted.
Chapter 7: What was Sean Rocks' employment classification at RTÉ?
And then I got a letter from HR saying, no, I'm sorry, we can't make an exception for you because it's an allowance issue. And that's that's just it. You know.
Had Sean mentioned to you that he'd had issues with RT in the past and trying to address some of his contractual situation?
an awful lot. It was a huge part of our lives and it was something that really kept Sean up at night. He wanted to tidy up his situation for many of the year. He's been the broadcaster of Arena for 16 years, so he's been very aware that he's This needed to be tidied up was how we used to put it. And particularly when we were expecting our children, I said, Sean, you need to get this sorted.
So Sean went in numerous times to senior management to try and get this rectified and to say, I'm being misclassified. I'm not a producer. I shouldn't be on this allowance situation with my main wage. Can you please rectify this? And, you know, he was fobbed off an awful lot and said, yes, yes, we'll get back to you. We'll get back to you. But unfortunately, it never it never happened.
You know, it is if, you know, the pensionable part is bad enough. But Sean was misclassified for years.
Was Sean classified as a contractor or as an employee when he when he was working?
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Chapter 8: What does Catherine Bailey hope to achieve moving forward?
Sean was classified as a contractor despite working five days a week all year round. And that was not reflected in the setup of how he was paid. So he knew that that left us vulnerable should anything happen to him. And he wanted that tidied up and fixed. He just hit a brick wall every time and it was allowed to endure. And he found it very exacerbating.
And he contacted colleagues and friends and he said, how can I sort this? It really got him down. It really, really got him down. And it took a large toll on him. And the misclassification is very hard to stomach when, you know, all around him, he was getting huge praise for his work and recognition and work in the arts and you name it.
You know, people, you know, he was a very, very high caliber broadcaster. And yet on paper, RT had him down as a producer.
So there were, Brian, as Catherine outlined, and as she understands it, two issues here. One was that Sean's job title and salary didn't reflect the work he'd done for the organisation for many years. And another issue was the multiple fixed-term contracts he was on, despite requests from him to change this.
That's right. And Catherine's first issue is the years, as you heard, he was presenting Arena when RT had regarded him as a producer with a presenter allowance. Now, that allowance was not pensionable.
But also for many years he worked in RTE, Sean was on multiple fixed-term contracts and Catherine believes his pension did not reflect the full scope of his 25 years working across RTE, despite Sean being made a permanent employee in 2019.
But at that stage, he'd missed out on lots and lots of payments. So the amount of the pension in his pension pot had no reflection at all on the years he had spent in service of RTE. I mean, Sean is working in RTE since the year 2000, where he started Lyric FM. And the pension doesn't remotely reflect that. There's no comparison between what he got in his salary and his pension.
Kevin Backer said at the Oireachtas Committee yesterday that there needs to be one rule for everybody in the organisation, although he had discussed it with the board. How do you respond to that?
Well, clearly there isn't one rule fits for all because Sean was, you know, he was treated differently. You can't argue that. Financially, he was treated very, very differently to other presenters. For what reason? He, you know, he couldn't work out why when he was putting in, like he was...
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