Today with David McCullagh
Minister Jack Chambers on how to speed up infrastructure delivery
08 Jun 2026
Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the main focus of Minister Jack Chambers' discussion?
Well, I'm also joined in studio by the Minister for Public Expenditure, Jack Chambers. Minister, good morning to you. Good morning, David. You're here to talk about other things, but we should talk about the Rotunda as well. There is a deadline of 5pm today. Your colleague, Jennifer Carroll-McNeill, wants the Rotunda to say it is aligning with government policy. What happens if they don't?
Well, if there isn't compliance, then there'll be an escalation under the service level agreement. I fully support the Minister for Health's work to drive reform and compliance around the public-only consultant contract.
This has been signed up by consultants in the Rotunda and many other hospitals to deliver better public health care, to deliver better, more inclusive, accessible maternity care for women and babies. And the returning can't have an a la carte approach when it comes to contracts that have been signed by doctors in their hospital.
And also they should not be seeking to circumvent what they know is very clearly a public only contract. And that's why we expect compliance and we expect implementation of the public only consultant contract.
There is that point that Marie Sherlock was making there that clause 2410 of the contract does allow for some private work if it is approved by the employer. And it seems to come down to a legal interpretation of who is the employer. Is it the board of the Rotunda Hospital? Is it the HSE?
Well, I don't accept that wider point because, again, this is an attempt by the board and the management of the Rotunda to circumvent what's a very clear direction of public health policy, what's a very clear direction in terms of the service level agreement. Service level agreement is in return for public funding.
There's compliance around the set of direction, the principles under which maternity care and health care is delivered within the hospital system. There was a very clear transition arrangement from 2023 to the end of 2025, which gave hospitals the space to reposition their wider work stream to deliver the public-only consultant contract.
We've had strong uptake of that by doctors, and we can't have cherry-picking of public contracts. This is a critical part of Sláinte care, delivering a universal health system, and I support the Minister in that regard.
And she has the full backing of all the Cabinet.
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Chapter 2: How does compliance with public health policy affect maternity hospitals?
And, like, we're at one on... Like, we've constantly, like with Maria Sherlock there, again, referencing more funding. But myself and the Minister of Health are clear that the only way we're going to see... improved outputs in our health system is as much focus on reform and productivity.
For example, in the public-only consultant contract, only 11% are rostered for Saturdays, only 37% are rostered for evenings. So the wider issue of compliance with the public-only consultant contract is critical to deliver a more efficient, productive public health system.
And while it's not a case of constant discussion of everyone wanting more, how do we ensure that those who've signed up to the contract are working across the day. And I acknowledge the work across many of the hospital groups in doing that. But we need to ensure that we've better implementation of the contract, including with the Rotunda Hospital.
There has been an argument, as I'm sure you're well aware, there has been an argument from the maternity hospitals in particular, that they are a particular case for any other medical procedure or problem, there is a private option. There isn't in the case of maternity care because of the huge insurance costs involved. So is there an argument that in this one specific case
there could be some flexibility.
There isn't because doctors here have signed up to a public only contract. And what we want, the health system we're striving to build is one that has equity of access and increased recruitment of senior decision makers on site so that people get that better and more optimum care at the point of entry.
And when you look at the number of consultants, for example, in obstetrics, it's gone from 161 in 2019 to 236 in 2026, a 46% increase. So we're actually increasing the number of senior clinical decision makers. And we want to ensure that they're there to deliver public health care in our public maternity hospitals.
OK, you obviously are a doctor yourself. You've worked in hospitals. You've seen what goes on there. And more than most people, you probably will understand why Some women would wish to maintain the choice when it comes to who looks after her during pregnancy.
And that's why the ensuring that we resource, fund and support the recruitment of public only consultant doctors so that we build trust within that is critical. And also that we've equity of access across our public maternity hospitals is critical as well.
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Chapter 3: What are the reforms introduced to accelerate infrastructure delivery?
So the argument is that the level will rise for everyone rather than the level will lower for people on project.
Absolutely, if you look at how as a government we're prioritising healthcare and how we're resourcing our wider public service.
A lot of people might find that difficult to believe with respect, Minister.
Well, I would just point to the level of recruitment of senior decision makers, so 236 in 2026 compared to 161 in 2019. And that's because we want to deliver optimum, high standard care with equity of access for everybody. And that's the wider direction of Sláinte care since it was agreed a number of years ago. And what the Minister for Health is seeking to do is to
implement that over the coming period and work with our maternity hospitals to ensure that we have the best outcomes and health care for all women and babies born in the country.
OK, we have a couple of texts in on this coming at it from different angles. One says the contract is signed. They knew what they were getting into. They want their cake and eat it. So that's directed at the consultants. Another text, eight months pregnant and have opted for private care just to ease my anxiety on my first baby and have continuity with the consultant that will deliver my baby.
I do not understand why we are having this discussion, but we are not discussing private health insurance in general. Can we get rid of it for all two? Somehow, I think it comes down to whether it affects men. So to that texter, what would you say to that texter?
What I'd say is we're transitioning private health care out of the direction of Salantia Care is to take private health care out of our public hospitals. Obviously, if there are private hospitals that offer a range of services, that's a matter for private hospitals. But in our public hospitals, we want to ensure public funding supports universal access for everybody.
And that's been the agreed settled health policy for many years.
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Chapter 4: How is the government planning to improve housing and infrastructure?
The Minister for Health expects the Rotunda to respond in a direction of compliance, as we would expect any other hospital under a service level agreement.
OK, just to say we have obviously offered the master of the Rotunda professors, Sean Daly, an opportunity to come on the show. He wasn't in a position to do so today or indeed in previous days. And we've also requested a statement from the Rotunda. So I want to move on, Minister, this morning. You're publishing a progress report on the Accelerating Infrastructure Action Plan.
In practical terms, for people this morning stuck in a traffic jam or shut out of the housing market or waiting for access to the electricity grid, what can you tell them about when the government is finally going to get its act together on infrastructure delivery?
What I'd say is we've absolutely gotten our act together. We're driving reform. We're driving accelerated delivery across a number of areas. And just to give some tangible examples of that, The reforms I've introduced have resulted in the Waterford Wastewater Treatment Plant half a year being shaved off its delivery timeline.
The Greater Dublin Drainage Project, which is a critical project in terms of water infrastructure for the east coast of Ireland, that a year has been shaved off. That is an example.
So a lot of what I've been doing over the last number of weeks is cutting excessive process, cutting a lot of the crap out of bureaucracy, which has built up over recent years, which has been slow, which has had a degree of paralysis and ensuring we have a delivery first attitude across the public service.
And to build more homes, we need to have the water systems, the electricity and transport connectivity to build the homes that people require. And that's why, as a government, we've prioritised investment in infrastructure over the next series of years.
And I'm confident people will see a lot of the projects that have been listed and people are maybe sceptical about over the last 10 to 20 years, they're actually going to see shovels in the ground, the likes of Metro, for example, I expect will be commenced.
The Greater Dublin Drainage Project, multi-billion euro projects, a lot of our regional road connectivity with Transport Infrastructure Ireland, a lot of the projects which people have been waiting on for years, we want to get to construction, get to completion.
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Chapter 5: What challenges does the government face in infrastructure delivery?
And that's why I'm going to publish risk appetite statements where essentially, as Minister for Public Expenditure, with wider responsibility for the public service, backing them to have a greater risk appetite. Because we don't have a choice with some of these critical infrastructure projects in terms of our grid.
Some of the roads, the public transport projects, the water projects... But I can see this making a nice conversation at the Public Accounts Commission when things go wrong and there's an overspend. Well, I think we'll have to make the case that if, for example, 10 projects that are delivered quicker, one may go...
May not go to plan, but I think we're better to make the case on speed of delivery over a cautious, conservative public service where process supersedes progress. And I think we need to increase a risk appetite, cut out some of the guidance and the process which has built up over the last number of years.
But that's there for a reason.
It's to stop money being wasted. Some of it's there, but some of it... The cost of delay is enormous. We know with some of these projects, it's costing tens of millions of euro every month or quarter that's lost because of internal processes in certain instances.
Judicial reviews where, again, they're being weaponised by narrow interests who want to undermine the public objective of getting things done. And that's why we're reforming this in terms of legal reforms which we're introducing. We've capped environmental scale of fees. Why we're bringing through regulatory changes to drive delivery.
And I think this is what will build the growth and prosperity for Ireland over the next number of years. It will deliver the thousands of homes we want to see built across our country if we get our infrastructure right. And the only way we're going to do that is driving the reforms which we're advancing through legislation and improved regulation, but also ensuring we have a greater risk appetite.
Okay, you mentioned judicial reviews. I mean, making judicial review more difficult is all fine and dandy if you accept that government always gets every decision right.
Well, there's obviously, people will still have a right to take a judicial review, but the grounds to take one will change. That's where the work of Minister O'Callaghan around the Civil Legal Reform Bill, the work of myself and Minister O'Brien have undertaken with environmental scale of fees.
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Chapter 6: How will the government address concerns about judicial reviews?
So that's one element. I think there's been a change in the dynamic around judicial reviews, if I'm honest, over the last several months. I think the focus on infrastructure, the focus on, I think, the greater accountability for people that are actually taking judicial reviews. We saw, for example, those seeking to take judicial review around Metro.
I think there was a lot of public concern and debate about why people in this particular residential estate would seek to block a major transport project for this city and for the eastern part of the country. Because they were worried their houses were going to be destroyed. But again, they pulled back. And I think we...
But I mean, it's not irrational. It's not irrational to be worried about a bloody big tunnel being dug under your back garden.
Well, look, if we want, there's always going to be in major projects, whether it's in water infrastructure or the crit building out our grid or building the public transport system we want to build across our country. There's always going to be, you know, there's always going to be people that, you know, may have specific local concerns when we need to build better public acceptance.
And we're conscious of that to show the wider benefits that infrastructure brings and the homes it will deliver. But it's clear in Ireland we've had a massive growth in recent years that might be on a slight downward trend in 26, but it's still too high.
OK, with your public expenditure hat on and swapping over from your infrastructure hat, as we know, there was €640 million overrun in the Department of Education. You're imposing what's described as a levy on other departments to offset that. What's the difference between a levy and a cut?
So a levy is essentially focusing on driving efficiencies and reforms. And I think this is the problem in our public discussion on expenditure. There's a need for the different government departments and agencies to find efficiencies, particularly with the growth in spending we've seen in the last five years.
To say that everyone needs more and only more and they can't more efficiently deliver their current baseline outputs isn't accepted by me. And that's why we decided to reprioritise funding in the context of the Department of Education and why we've given space to departments to find efficiencies. So depending on their up to 1.4%.
You've given them space to find efficiencies?
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Chapter 7: What measures are being taken to ensure efficient public spending?
And to go back to our infrastructure conversation, moderating day-to-day expenditure is what will give us the space to continue to invest in housing and infrastructure in the long term and also protect and grow our economy so we ensure we have a safe, sustainable economic policy.
All we hear from the opposition is wanting to spend more, wanting to cut taxes and that would seriously undermine our future and I'm conscious of the role I'm in to continue to run a surplus to make the case to have two long-term funds so we ensure we mitigate the geopolitical risk that's surrounding Ireland as well.
You mentioned cutting taxes. The loudest voice I've heard suggesting tax cuts is your colleague Simon Harris.
Well, I think there's agreement in government. Obviously, after the last budget, we're conscious of the need to reward work and reward workers. But whatever the tax package will be, will be affordable and sustainable. And I'm conscious of any of the balance of decisions that we'll have to make. We want to, again...
Workers who, again, working really hard might, you know, get all the, you know, want to see some of their wage growth given back to them in the context of a personal tax package. And that's something I absolutely support.
OK, we are a long way out from the budget and it seems preposterous to be talking about it at this stage, but we are. Over the budgetary process, and you're starting into it now, I guess, over that hangs a considerable amount of economic uncertainty.
Are you concerned about that? I'm absolutely concerned about it, and that's why we need to continue to make the case for running budgetary surpluses, why we need to continue to put money aside in our two long-term funds. We expect to have over £23 billion set aside by the end of 2026. and why the delivery of infrastructure is hugely important for Ireland's future.
But I'm conscious as well that the budget isn't just about dispersing an allocation to all government departments. It's also about reform. For example, going back to the health system, how do I work with Minister Carol MacNeill ensuring that we see better productivity for the huge level of increased spending in the health system?
for in 2027 and this year so how do we improve that so people see better value and better improvement of public services for the level of spending that's increased exponentially in recent years so my focus for budget 27 is obviously rewarding work but also ensuring people see reform through the budgetary process so that they can act when when there's an announcement of a particular increase they actually see tangible improvements in any given year
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Chapter 8: How does the government plan to support families facing rising energy costs?
And Minister O'Brien is working on an energy affordability task force on options that we'll consider for budget 2027. And that will, I suppose, that will set the context in the decisions that we'll make in October.
OK, I'll ask you to put on another hat now, Deputy Leader of Fianna Fáil. Disastrous by-elections, particularly in Dublin Central, while Fine Gael won Galway West. And there is a perception among some within your party that Fine Gael is doing better out of this coalition than you guys are.
I wouldn't accept that. I mean, the by-elections are very much concentrated within the local dynamic. The Dublin Central area, we haven't won a seat for many, many years. And obviously in Galway West and in Dublin Central, we had two first-time candidates both of whom ran excellent campaigns, but were competing with people who had ran in multiple local elections.
Some had previously been Dáil representatives. So it was about rebuilding there. And we have a piece of work to do again to rebuild, particularly in Dublin Central and ensuring Galway West, we continue to build on the work that Deputy John Connolly is doing.
But look, we had the Dublin South by-election in the previous Dáil where we had just over 5% and we significantly increased our vote in the 2024 general election. We're the largest party local government, the largest party in the Dáil. And I'm confident our grassroots will continue to grow and build towards the local elections and the general election whenever it happens.
OK, Jack Chamber is Minister for Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Services Reform and Digitalisation and Fianna Fáil TD for Dublin West. Thank you so much for joining us this morning. Back after this.
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