Menu
Sign In Search Podcasts Libraries Charts People & Topics Add Podcast API Blog Pricing
Podcast Image

Today with David McCullagh

Twice exceptional: when gifted children also have an advanced learning need

20 Apr 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What is the Centre for Talented Youth and its purpose?

0.031 - 15.128 David McCullagh

Each year, around 6,000 students aged 6 to 17 take part in programmes that go far beyond the limits of the standard school curriculum. The Centre for Talented Youth in DCU offers courses for children with strong aptitude in one or more subjects.

0

15.589 - 30.911 David McCullagh

Increasingly, that includes a growing cohort of twice exceptional students, those who are both gifted and have additional learning needs, raising important questions about how talent is identified, supported... and sometimes overlooked within the education system.

0

31.071 - 41.981 David McCullagh

Joining me now for more on this is Dr Orla Dunn, Assistant Professor at DCU's School of Inclusive Education and Programme Manager at Centre for Talented Youth Ireland. Orla, good morning. Thanks for coming in.

0

42.022 - 43.285 Dr. Orla Dunne

Good morning, David. Thanks for having me.

0

43.265 - 48.895 David McCullagh

Tell us a little bit about the Centre for Talented Youth at DCU. It's not a school. So what do you do?

49.176 - 63.822 Dr. Orla Dunne

So Centre for Talented Youth Ireland runs university style courses for gifted learners from six up to 17. So that would look like primary school classes on a Saturday and our residential programme that we run in DCU during the summer for secondary school students.

63.802 - 71.092 Dr. Orla Dunne

So students will come in and take subjects that they might not necessarily be exposed to in primary school or in secondary school, indeed.

Chapter 2: Who are twice exceptional students and how are they identified?

71.833 - 90.72 Dr. Orla Dunne

Subjects like aeronautical engineering or zoology or forensic science or writing-based subjects. So what we're really focused on is bringing in students to challenge them and stretch them academically, which sometimes they don't get in school. And also, of course, creating a good social environment where they can meet like-minded peers.

0

90.7 - 97.842 David McCullagh

Okay, so the worry is that kids who are quite bright and are able to do the curriculum in the school, they're getting a bit bored.

0

97.99 - 120.19 Dr. Orla Dunne

Sometimes they can get a bit bored and that can be very frustrating. You know, if you really want to move ahead, but you're kind of stuck, obviously students can become sometimes a bit, you know, demotivated that they feel like they want to move ahead. So we really enjoy getting to kind of get to see these students kind of stretch their talents and really focus on their strengths as well.

0

120.531 - 121.753 David McCullagh

Yeah. And how do you select them?

0

121.733 - 139.283 Dr. Orla Dunne

So students usually come to us via a few different ways. So typically they might score pretty well on a standardised test in school and then they come and they would sit one of our assessments. But increasingly how we're getting a lot more of our students is through educational psychologist reports. So these typically would be our twice exceptional students.

139.323 - 146.155 Dr. Orla Dunne

So twice exceptional are students who are gifted with an additional education need. That would be maybe autism, ADHD.

Chapter 3: What challenges do twice exceptional students face in traditional education?

146.135 - 162.517 Dr. Orla Dunne

dyslexia, dyspraxia. And if they've gone to an educational psychologist, usually they'll have given a test as well. You know, testing verbal reasoning, fluid reasoning, things like that. So actually, you know, the cohort of CTYI has changed quite a lot in the last 30 years that we've been running.

0

162.978 - 169.046 Dr. Orla Dunne

And now across our primary and secondary school programmes, about 25% of our students would be twice exceptional.

0

169.286 - 171.99 David McCullagh

Wow, that's quite high. Is that a surprise to you?

0

171.97 - 193.621 Dr. Orla Dunne

It's not a surprise now because, you know, internationally we're seeing a lot of really good research out there about the increase in twice exceptional young people. And of course, we know that generally, you know, things like autism, ADHD are being, you know, recognised a lot more and we're seeing more diagnoses of that, more children are being recommended for that.

0

194.042 - 202.894 Dr. Orla Dunne

So I think it's just a natural fit that now they're coming to us. And then the other thing I would say is that I think people are just becoming a bit more aware of CTYI, which is great as well.

203.314 - 217.873 David McCullagh

Okay. And, you know, you kind of have the impression that maybe in previous years, a lot of kids who might have had those special abilities, those gifts in particular subjects, weren't recognised.

217.853 - 234.664 Dr. Orla Dunne

No. And, you know, we do still see a little bit of that now because, you know, sometimes if you have an additional education need, that might actually be masking your really strong abilities in something. And what we're often seeing in schools and a piece of research that we have done recently on parents' perceptions of education.

234.644 - 252.533 Dr. Orla Dunne

the support services that their children were receiving in school, is that there can often be this deficit-based mindset. So where we're very focused on the additional education need. And of course, that's important. There's a lot of challenges and resources that a child might need. But we're not seeing enough focus on their strengths.

252.653 - 261.327 Dr. Orla Dunne

And they're certainly not getting from our research more support in schools for their actual talents and strengths.

Chapter 4: How does the Centre for Talented Youth support gifted learners?

420.428 - 443.037 David McCullagh

Really? Yeah. Okay. So, and hopefully some of the students now will be perhaps joining you in future years. Yes. So if a parent is listening to this, right, and they think either that their child is particularly gifted or they might be, you know, twice exceptional in the way that you're saying, I mean, how do you know? Because every parent thinks their child is a genius probably. Yes.

0

443.017 - 460.941 Dr. Orla Dunne

So, like, I mean, the obvious indicators might be the testing that we were talking about. So they might score very high on a standardised test in school. But it could be other things like they're really searching for more knowledge. You know, they're asking more in-depth questions that they don't feel that their schoolwork is going in deep enough. That could be in science. It could be in history.

0

460.921 - 483.098 Dr. Orla Dunne

What I would definitely say for any parent who is interested or particularly any teacher or school leader, if they haven't already connected with us at C2II to do so, so dcu.ie forward slash C2II. And the other thing that I would encourage them if they're interested is DCU has just launched the first graduate programme in gifted education in Ireland. We're taking our first intake in September.

0

483.078 - 502.167 Dr. Orla Dunne

So the graduate diploma in gift education will cover lots of different topics across gift education, including identification, you know, how we can support these children in school, social, emotional needs. And that diploma is going to be open to both educators and advocates. And we know parents are sometimes the best advocates for their children.

0

502.147 - 514.992 David McCullagh

OK, absolutely. Well, listen, thank you very much indeed for that. That's Dr Orla Dunn, Assistant Professor at DCU's School of Inclusive Education and Programmes Manager at the Centre for Talented Youth in Ireland. Thank you so much for coming in. Back after this.

Comments

There are no comments yet.

Please log in to write the first comment.