Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
I'm Ayesha Roscoe, and this is a Sunday story from Up First, where we go beyond the news of the day to bring you one big story.
Chapter 2: What promises did Trump make regarding immigration enforcement?
President Trump campaigned on a promise of mass deportations. And since he took office in January, agents from Immigration and Customs Enforcement, also known as ICE, have been increasing detentions to try to meet that goal. In July, Congress approved $170 billion for immigration and border enforcement, $75 billion of which will go directly to ICE. It's the most money the U.S.
government has ever invested in detention and deportation, and it makes ICE the highest funded law enforcement agency in the federal government. All this prompted our friends over at NPR's Throughline podcast to take a look back at the history of ICE, from the original intent of the agency to its evolution as a law enforcement powerhouse.
The episode features two people who've spent decades working on opposite sides of the immigration system. You know, I think there's a, to keep the system fair, it has to be well-regulated. Roger Werner is currently employed by the Department of Homeland Security. He's worked there since the department was created in 2003, and he was a founding member of ICE.
He's also the co-author of the book, The History and Evolution of Homeland Security in the United States. The views he expresses are his own. He's not speaking as a representative of the government. They also talked to Peter Markowitz. I'm a professor at Cardozo School of Law in New York City.
Markowitz founded the Catherine O. Greenberg Immigration Justice Clinic, where he defends immigrants facing deportation and works on policy. In the ThruLine episode, Werner and Markowitz take listeners through the fascinating history of ICE, starting from its origins as the Immigration and Naturalization Service, or the INS, stretching back into the 20th century.
And they also explore the question of what's changed in 2025 since the Trump administration took office. We're going to play that final part of the episode about what's changed over the past year. But I strongly recommend that you check out the full episode on the ThruLine podcast because it offers critical historical context for the moment we're now in.
We'll be back with ThruLine host Rund Abdel-Fattah, who will pick up the story at the beginning of 2025.
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Chapter 3: How has ICE's funding changed under the Trump administration?
I got three words for him. Jack and all. You're going to see us take this country back. Shock and awe. That is how Tom Homan kicked off the Trump administration's second term approach to deportations. President Trump is pushing through a mass deportation campaign. Immigration raids are up all across the country.
Thousands of National Guard troops and hundreds of Marines have been called to Los Angeles by President Trump. Agents, often armed, wearing plain clothes and masks, are showing up at places where Latino workers are known to gather. Hardware store parking lots, car washes, street vendor corners, and rounding them up. They've grabbed people at bus stops or dragged them out of their cars.
For the past few months, it's felt like Americans are seeing ICE everywhere. It's been hard to scroll Instagram or TikTok without hitting a video. Of workers in hairnets at a meatpacking plant being herded into a break room by ICE agents. A woman crying as she's put into a white truck. A black ICE van accelerating as a group of protesters pushes against its hood.
Some of the videos are posted by ICE itself. The ICE agents' faces are blurred. The people they're detaining are not. Immigration attorney and law professor Peter Markowitz says this moment, what he's seen unfolding online and in his own work, is unlike anything he's experienced in ICE's history.
The examples I might point to are like the deployment of non-immigration agents, National Guard, other military and law enforcement agencies in a kind of sweeping, heavy-handed, very visible manner. That is something that is unfamiliar to me in what I have seen in immigration enforcement in the time that I've been doing this work and really in any time in my lifetime.
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Chapter 4: What historical context is provided about the evolution of ICE?
Since the start of President Trump's second term, ICE is averaging more than 600 immigration arrests every day. In some states, that's more than double the usual amount. Though government attorneys say there's no quota, Trump's deputy chief of staff, Stephen Miller, has set a goal of 3,000 detentions per day. That would mean a total of more than 1 million arrests every year.
The repercussions are rippling out globally. In March, the Trump administration sent hundreds of immigrants to a notorious facility in El Salvador. And in July, it deported eight immigrants who'd been convicted of crimes in the U.S. to South Sudan. Only one of them was from there. Peter Markowitz says that as far back as its creation, some of ICE's work has always been about optics.
And this is where historian and DHS employee Roger Werner agrees. Speaking as a researcher and private citizen, he argues that detaining immigrants at such high rates and even deporting them to countries they have no attachment to could be a powerful deterrent. I recommend you all go to the southwest border sometime.
Chapter 5: Who are the key guests and what are their backgrounds?
Imagine walking 50 miles, like an old lady or a kid, 50 miles. Wow. But that, I mean, but that doesn't that transmit a level of like desperation on their part to do that? Yes, but it also is the amount of risk you would take. You put your kid through that. One thing an adult male going across and say, hey, listen, I'll send you money. We'll figure out how to get here.
I can totally understand that. But, you know, and putting a four-year-old child maybe in the hands of a smuggling organization or cartel-based, these people are absolutely brutal. No, I hear you. I guess in my mind then I'm like, I have a two-year-old. Yeah. But I think about it. I'm like, what would compel me to ever put him in that situation?
It would be things have gotten so bad in my present circumstances. Would be like, that's just how in my brain, that's how it works. Right. I totally understand it. But you also have to say, is the risk worth the reward? Yeah. meaning are you likely to remain in the United States? That's the real driver. The driver isn't that, you know, where are you going to risk your children?
It's are you going to be able to make it? Right, if there isn't something worth it on the other side. Yeah, I hear you. If you show and say, and we're talking theoretically here, I was not involved in these operations. If you show and say that, hey, you're not going to be allowed in no matter what you do, would you sell everything and try? No, you would look for another alternative.
We asked ICE about this. A statement from ICE in response to our questions read, in part, quote, It's baffling that anyone would even question a nation's decision to enforce laws enacted by Congress to deter crime. End quote. Peter Markowitz says, optics aside, he's noticed two other major changes in ICE's operations. The first has to do with the judicial process, when cases go to court.
If you go to the immigration court at 26 Federal Plaza in Manhattan, where I often represent clients, what is happening there is different than what I have ever seen before. The agency is moving to terminate cases, which normally, if you're representing an immigrant, the termination of a case is a victory.
But the plan here is to bypass the immigration courts and to use extrajudicial mechanisms to deport people. So they can use a mechanism called expedited removal. And it's a mechanism where ICE gets to act as the judge, jury, and executioner. They don't need any immigration judge. And there is very little federal court review available.
And an agent kind of determines on their own that this person is going to be deported with with almost no due process. And so they move to terminate these cases for the purpose of using that alternative mechanism, notwithstanding the fact that an immigration judge has a process underway and the person is fully compliant with that process. This is happening around the country.
A statement from ICE in response to our questions read in part, quote, End quote. Since ICE's detention numbers began to rapidly increase, there have been reports of overcrowding, poor sanitation, and lack of food at ICE detention centers. Peter says all of this is happening at places where conditions were poor to begin with. Have you ever been to one of those facilities? Many times.
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Chapter 6: What changes in ICE operations have been observed since 2025?
I anticipate that we're going to be seeing checkpoints, you know, and so I fear that level of funding is so out of scale with what has come before that We are at real risk of kind of becoming a police state. And we've already seen that ICE, you know, doesn't hesitate to move against citizens when it perceives the need to do so.
So I think increasingly people are going to feel that in a very, very kind of visceral way. What does that mean for the agency to have that kind of influx of funding?
lot of responsibility i would say from a historical perspective to spend the american taxpayers wisely yeah make sure that they're getting the best use of their money and it's not wasted it's a big responsibility with that amount of money coming into an agency quickly that you know i hope historically the right thing is done with it you know that serves both american people uh the interests of the united states and the the people that are taken into custody
You know, they deserve the rights that are available to them under the laws that Congress has passed. But in spite of all the money heading ICE's way, and the responsibility that comes with it, Roger doesn't think this moment is fundamentally different from the rest of ICE's history. Or, for that matter, INS's. This is nothing out of the ordinary.
None of this has been out of the ordinary over the years as it's been a result of funding and congressional and executive and political support and largely driven by the American people. This comes in waves about every 30 years with our immigration policy. We become too generous and people feel that we're being taken advantage of.
So then they want a more firm hand or, you know, more thorough examination of things. There's always a pendulum swing. But there is, you do have to have a deterrent because we can absorb everybody inside the United States. So it depends on where you sit on the issue is how you're going to judge that, I guess.
You know, if you think we should let in everybody, then, you know, but that's not what the majority of the American public believe in. So that's not where the polls are. They want some degree of immigration enforcement. What that looks like, that's always a, you know, that's that pendulum swinging back and forth. Peter disagrees.
He says, And he worries that we've entered an era where ICE is amassing more and more power. And he feels like the checks on that power are disappearing. In the first Trump administration, you know, there were institutional players in the White House and DOJ and DHS, you know, said, wait, wait, wait, we have to follow the law. Those people are all gone.
Like, there are no internal checks going on anymore. Beyond that, what are the other checks? The immigration courts are being purged, right? Anybody who is not kind of aligned is being pushed out. What I had hoped was that the Supreme Court may actually provide some kind of check against the most extreme examples. And With one or two notable exceptions, that has really not been the case.
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