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Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Waterland Podcast presented to you by Betcha. And here's a little sample of what's about to come in this episode.
What a finals run, eh? They averaged 61 points across their three finals game. Their ability to move the ball to edges and the skill set across their whole side, in terms of most dominant attacking performances you've seen, that has to be right up there. First ever Dave Rennie All Black side. What'd you make of the overall squad?
When you look at the skill set throughout the forward pack and the back line, there's a lot of speed there. I think we've prioritised counter-attack and that transition from defence into attack.
I'm still shocked that he missed out on that.
Chapter 2: What were the key highlights of the Super Rugby final?
I did think he was genuine. Chance to be named in there yesterday.
I just have this feeling he's going to end up in South Africa somehow or some way. If he takes to international footy like he has to super, he could well be our best player as well because he's that type of guy.
Well, we can't get our Super Rugby preview in and not have a chance to review it. And especially after the season that we had, and in particular that final, that was an absolute clinic from the Hurricanes to lift the 2026 Super Rugby trophy. So we will talk through all of that and also dissect the first ever Dave Rennie All Black side and preview some of the up and coming games and test matches.
And who better to do all that with than the Waterland Sport guru, the legend, Surly from Surly Talks Sport. Welcome, mate.
Mate, what an intro. I appreciate that. Yes, it was a great final for us. 95% of the country. Even I could sit back and admire that performance, though, as a Chiefs fan. Look, it's never great to have 60 points put on you, but I think if you look back on the tries that were scored, you just can't help but marvel at the skill set across that team, their ability to make their plan A.
Better than any plan A I've seen. I think in Super Rugby, it was just so dominant. And what a finals run, eh? They averaged 61 points across their three finals game and conceded 13 a game. It's just... Yeah, wow.
You just have to sit back. 60 to 5, mate. 60 to 5. Let's talk about that decision not to take the two points. So what was that all about? That's outrageous.
You've got to chase the game, mate. I think it was just like, this wind is ridiculous. I don't want to embarrass myself any more than it has been already. So let's just, like, we don't have time for that. There's five minutes to go. We need 55 points. We're going after this.
We can get them if we don't take this conversion. Mental. But you're right, like that first 10 minutes of that game, I was like, oh my God, what are we in for here? Like the passes were going all over the show, kicks were going backwards.
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Chapter 3: How did the Hurricanes achieve such a dominant performance?
Yeah, absolutely. And like the D as well, like the thing I was surprised about was how easily the Canes were getting to the edge. Like the Chiefs traditionally quite a high edge defense and can make that quite difficult. But man, they just found space there so easily and they were just bending them, getting them into the 22 and then scoring for fun. So man, it was real exciting.
It was a real interesting game and obviously absolute clinic from the Canes. But one performance, like I know you had him as the lad seal winner at the start of the year was DMACC. And like, what a tough night for that guy. I know the wind was atrocious, but man, I just could not get something to work for him.
No, and it's one of those things. You'd know it. I certainly know it. The harder you try, the worse it gets, right? And as soon as you're not kicking the ball off 10 and it's blowing back past your head, like those are the things that just crush you as a first five and as a player, right?
It almost gets to the point where you start to feel a little bit embarrassed and you're like, mate, just get me out of here. So I felt incredibly sorry for him. I was so looking forward to that matchup between him and Ruben Love. And I actually thought having DMACC in the 10 was one of the biggest Chiefs advantages because-
The times where the Canes had lost games this year, their plan B was so much worse than their plan A. So I thought the Chiefs would have... The breakdown physicality to be able to slow the ball down, drag the canes into that plan B, and that's where D-Max steps up and shows just how good he is as a game driver. But it was the complete opposite, and I feel sorry for Damien.
He's one of those guys that's been there for all of those finals, really, and he's a player that deserves to win a Super Rugby title, but certainly wasn't his night on the weekend. I'm sure he would own that, too, and I back him to be able to shake it off quickly once he throws on a black jersey, but...
Yeah, it was one of those ones where you sit back on the couch and you just say, jeepers, he would love to be anywhere else in the world right now. Get him to a European summer, the poor bloke.
A shame it wasn't a week earlier for me because he put on an absolute clinic against us in that first half. Like, it's just a change of fortunes. And like you say around that confidence thing, like that first half in the semifinal, just everything was going his way and he was just making breaks for fun.
And you could see that real confidence and swagger that he had and everything was working there.
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Chapter 4: What were the standout player performances of the Super Rugby season?
Like, what a year he's had. He can cover 15 as well. So yeah, no complaints there with him being picked in there. What a season.
Yeah, Fihi as well, which is an interesting one contract-wise. I'm sure we'll get into the ABs, but their ability to not only finish, but I think a lot of people just tarnish them with the brush that they are finishers, but I think both of them create opportunities too.
And yes, they get put in some good positions at the end of some nice interchange between forwards and backs and things like that, but there's still a lot of work to do in a fair few of those tries. Some of them they're strolling over, but some of them's just...
beautiful winger play and I'm stoked to see them get an opportunity because I feel like in years gone by perhaps they might not have right yeah 17 tries each like it's unbelievable numbers and I think it just goes to show how the All Blacks are looking to play selecting those two plus Leroy probably won't be going eerily as much as we previously have tried so I guess it's quite exciting as an All Black fan to see
how they do try and play in these first few games. But I do want to talk about the Chiefs because that is another heartbreaking loss for them, like four in a row, like you mentioned. They look like they sort of limped into that final wee bit, like you saw Jacobson trying to head to pass his ā
fitness test before the game Quinn looked a sore like and I know their back three had taken a massive hit throughout the year they're missing some quality outside backs so they'd look like they played their final this the week earlier and geez after that finals semi-finals thinking this is going to be some game like if they played like they did in that first half and the Canes played like they did we would have had a match
Yeah, I think it is, like, good to point out, right, even losing Isaac Hutchinson from that semifinal. Yeah. When you look at the Chiefs injured list, Imani, all those guys, they were missing some strike. I feel like the Canes... were really deep, but apart from maybe a Riley Higgins and there's like one or two guys in there that you could see slotting. Yeah, Delaney.
Yeah, Delaney was a big loss for sure. And that was the one I was most worried about. Maybe a Brett Cameron. Apart from that, in terms of the actual squad making the 23, you'd think that that was probably up there with one of their strongest 23s. I still don't know if the Chiefs were full strength, whether they could have stopped that juggernaut, though.
I feel like that Kane side on that night is historically the best attacking super rugby side I've ever seen.
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Chapter 5: What surprises were there in Dave Rennie's first All Blacks squad?
And by all accounts, that's the plan. And you look at that squad and you can see that's pretty clearly the plan and how they're going to look to play.
And it's going to be interesting to see how that works, especially these first three games and then leading over to Africa where it's going to be probably contrasting styles because they'll definitely be going to the air and set piece pressure and doing what they do so well. So it's going to be a hell of a year and I'm excited to see where it all ends up.
Oh, for sure. And someone like Xavier Numea, I'm so happy for him. I feel like he could have been in it a couple years ago, but he's always picked up really bad injuries at the worst possible times. And then he's gone on to dominate MPC and he reminds you how good he is, but his skill set as a prop is just second to none. We saw it in the final, but...
I feel like his set piece has come a long way, and he ticks all of the boxes now. The Signo one, I tipped him as a bolter a couple weeks back, but I'm still a massive Du Plessis fan, and I feel really sorry for Karifi, especially after captaining a side to a 60-5 win, right?
You expect to see someone like that in the team, but I think it's his versatility, and it was interesting to hear Dave Rennie say that they see him as being a potential in the seven jersey and to be a really good seven, so... I think that got him over dupes. The wingers, I wasn't surprised to see.
I did think maybe Enrico Ioane kind of might have played his way in, or not played his way in there, but just been named in there. Played quite well over in Europe for the last month and gives you that 13 wing. And just a guy who's played a whole bunch of tests, so I thought they might have leaned on him a little bit. But yeah, no massive shocks.
I think maybe Cegna was probably the biggest surprise for me.
Yeah. What a story for Josh Morvey too, eh? Like playing for the Stags maybe four years ago, three, four years ago, and then had a breakout couple of seasons with the Canes, moved over to France, didn't enjoy it, came back, backed himself to being all black. And one year later, it's all happened for him. I love stories like that.
I feel like there's a lot of guys who are leaving this year at the end of Super Rugby that we might see have similar paths. It kind of shows that once you leave New Zealand Rugby, the door's not fully closed. If you leave at the right time and you still have a desire to come back... And it was interesting speaking to Anton Leonard Brown the other day around his time in Japan.
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Chapter 6: Which players were considered unlucky not to be selected for the All Blacks?
All that.
Well, that's the thing. They asked him yesterday and he was like, I don't know, my agent's trying to sort it and I haven't heard from him. And it's like, well, look, I get that agents can go, but listen, but you've just been named in the All Blacks. So let's make this a priority. I assume now he's staying, but it's almost like even Dave Rennie was like, yeah, look, he's signed till November.
He's got some things to work out. And I rate that we're giving him a chance because he's earned it. But it's a different type of situation to what we've had in All Blacks teams of the past. Normally, when someone comes out at the start of the year, at the middle of the year, at the end of the year and says they're off, then it's lying through them.
And I'm assuming that's what happened with Sabapeni Finau because there's rumors that he is off overseas. But yeah, there must be something that they're confident in this Fahey deal that he's going to get out of it. And whether it's New Zealand Rugby or offering up some cash or whether this agent who's gone missing for the last few months can pull it off. But it's all a bit bizarre.
The poor bloke was just getting hounded with it at the media session, eh?
Yeah, that's a good point around that. He signed till November, so he was planning on doing the whole MPC anyway. That might be different to some of the others who... Post-Super weren't planning on doing MPC, so they're off straight away, so would essentially rule all those guys out. But you've spoken around some of the unlucky guys, like Karifi, massively unlucky.
You mentioned around the lack of versatility potentially costing him, but what a season to be not picked in the All Blacks. It seems very harsh. The other one's also Rico you mentioned. Noah Hotham I expected to be in there, so that was a bit of a surprise to me. I thought he might have been number two behind Cam, but obviously seeing something there. What were your thoughts on that one?
I was just going to ask you around what Kyle Preston, and do you think that selection is that his game off the bench can add a little more impact than a Noah? Do you think they see Noah and Cortez as a very similar style of player? Because you work with both, and...
Preston didn't start a game for the Chiefs for the Crusaders this year but his impact every time he came on was massive do you think they see him in a bit more of a specialised role there?
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Chapter 7: How will the All Blacks adapt their playing style under Dave Rennie?
Does then DMACC start at 15? There's a few uncertainties around injury. So I
I think Leicester would have been named an outside back I was gutted to see how long he was out for I think in South Africa he would have been such a big asset for us to have and South Africa kind of not invented this hybrid role but they've made it very big on the world map haven't they and they've been really vocal about it so I was keen to see Leicester try go over there and
and take them on at their own game. I think that would have been really cool to see, but it's just unfortunate. There's some good players at the moment out. It was really interesting for me. Like they had this camp up here in Auckland. Um, they were based out at North Harbor. So a lot of my mates were seeing them daily, seeing who was in there, seeing the whiteboard with all the names up there.
And there was some guys and I get that they need numbers to be able to run and the drills that they were doing and things like that. But there was Xavier Tito Harris, Torian Barnes, Lucas Casey. There was a lot of players involved that are young and that have massive futures. And I guess it just shows what this All Blacks selection group at the moment are looking for and looking at.
But it reminds you of the depth, eh? Like, you wouldn't, in years gone by... You wouldn't have been surprised to see Lucas Casey named in this team too. And he was a name a lot of people were throwing up. He's a great young footballer, but obviously he's there or thereabouts, which excites me too. There's going to be opportunities given to guys over the next few years.
Yeah, and especially when you talk around the loose forwards, it's such a stacked position. I thought Ethan Blackheader was unlucky. He had a massive year for us. Christian Leo Willie, another one who really came into his own in the back end of the season. You mentioned Finau before. I think that final and the back end of the season was some of the best footy I've seen him play, so...
Even guys on your bench, like Don Gardner, I am a massive believer in him. I know Jamie Hanna's a lock, but there's guys there that look like they have the physical attributes and the game style to be able to go to international level. So... Even our props, hookers, like can you name the three hookers and what order they are in the picking order?
I can't because I feel like it's closer than it's ever been. Tamaiti Williams not available, but look at the pack, like Ollie Norris missing out as a prop. There's some players, man, like we have really underrated depth at the moment where I feel like Results haven't been going our way in the black jersey as consistently as we would have liked over the last few years.
So people are a little less optimistic as they have been in years gone by. But when you lay it all out, you see these guys that have missed out. You see the guys are going to be playing NPC. Like this competition is going to be so stacked this year. Guys wanting to prove a point. I feel like New Zealand rugby is at an exciting time.
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Chapter 8: What predictions can we make for the upcoming international season?
That's going to be one heck of a game as well.
Do you see them? So my question around the outside backs for him, Morby, do you think because they are the hot hand at the moment that they come straight into that first game under the roof? Or do you think they would say you can debut against Italy and Wellington?
They're used to those conditions, slightly lesser of a game or from Dave Rennie and that conversations you've had, do you think that they are just like, these are the form guys, they're going straight in?
Yeah, really good question. I think a lot of it's going to depend on the fitness of Will Jordan, like you mentioned. That'll play a big influence on that back three. You'd probably, they're going to potentially go Caleb Clark on one wing and then it might be a straight shootout between Fahey and Josh for the other one and see who gets their first opportunity. But yeah, Yeah, who knows, really?
Like, it's all the next exciting step for everyone, eh? Like, you see the big squad and now you're trying to work out what that 15 looks like. Where does Billy Proctor sit? What's the 12-13 combo? What are they going to do there? The Luce Ford trio, where's that all going to end up? Artie's probably going to be seven by all accounts.
So, yeah, look forward to that first team naming and see where it all ends up.
Oh, it's exciting, right? As rugby fans and sickos, this is what we love because once that 34 squad gets named, you start running through your 15s, your 23s, your group chats light up, the pub talk goes next level. Everyone's got different combinations, but no one is wrong because all the players in the squad are that good that it could be any of them. And this is where...
everyone kind of gets to name their sides in their head and it makes for a great chat around a few bears so this is like almost the most exciting time of the year once the squad gets named and you start playing around with different things in your head and then you hear someone else's opinion and you're like shit maybe he's right i'm going that way now it's good stuff
And it's such a big year for the All Blacks. So biggest international year ever, I think. Like nine games in Africa. Those tests are going to be huge. They've obviously got the Stormers, Sharks, Bulls before taking on South Africa. Then the Lions, then three tests against South Africa. That is going to be a massive tour. Ten more players added to the squad. You've already selected half of them.
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