Chapter 1: What sparked the discussion on Butters and Collard decisions?
The Hyundai open line was blowing up. Ross out the back has his hands full. If you have something to say, please, by all means, give us a buzz. 1-300-736-736. Let's go to Michael in Preston to get things going. Morning, Michael.
Yeah, Tom. Look, it just amazes me with Lance Collard's case. In a court of law, no one knows about your priors or previous convictions before you get sentenced.
Chapter 2: How did Michael view Lance Collard's case?
So what chance did Lance have, whether he's right or wrong, whether he did say it or not, everybody already knew that he had a prior regarding a homophobic slur.
Yeah, appreciate your call, Michael. It was part of the argument from the AFL, and we did ask James Gallagher about that a few moments ago as well. Thank you for the call. Let's go to Jaden and Karim Downs, who wants to talk about Zach Butters. G'day, Jaden.
G'day, Tommy. How you going?
Well, thanks.
Yeah, I've got three things to quickly touch on. Yeah, I work with an official that was doing that game on Sunday, And he categorically says that Butt has 100% said what Nick was saying. Not that it's any news. That's obviously what's been said, you know, against each other.
Did he hear it, Jaden? Sorry, did he hear it or did he just say that because Nick Foote was categoric on it?
No, well, yeah, I think he's just because Nick was categoric, but they obviously spoke, you know, immediately after.
Yeah.
Yeah, the second thing is with the audio, the audio is only there for them to communicate to each other. So it's only like a mic to pick up their own voice. So sometimes you'll get a little bit of outside noise, but in that instance, it's not designed for that. So that's why it probably didn't pick it up.
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Chapter 3: What are the differing perspectives on Zach Butters' situation?
In the other case, they believed the one over the two, and he got a slap on the fingers. Now, if he's got a firm guilty, he's got to get given his fair whack, And I'm probably more of an umpire basher than like everybody else that watches football. But all we've been concerned about is Nick Butters. What about Foote? His name's been dragged around now too.
So, you know, where's the concern for him?
That's a valid point with Foote. And I have asked Rob Kerr, who's the AFL Umpires Association boss, to come on for a chat. He hasn't got back to me yet, but hopefully we can get him on today or tomorrow. I said yesterday, James, on air, that I know Nick Foote personally. and I really like Nick Foote, and I really trust Nick Foote.
I think he's a good man, and I think he's a hugely successful umpire as well. He's umpired a grand final, 270 games. You could argue he's in the best two or three umpires in the sport, not just in terms of decision-making, but also his manner with the players. So I trust Nick Foote, but I also know people who know Zach Butters really well.
I've never met him personally myself, and I'm entirely inclined to think that Zach Butters believes he's telling the truth as well. So... I think there's a middle ground here. There's a nuance where you don't have to be against either party. You can actually support both parties if you're the AFL and reach a conclusion. In the end, they've gone with the umpire's word over the two players' words.
And you're right. There are similarities between the Collard case and the Butters case. Absolutely there are. The 2v1 component is interesting. The fact that it's both gone to the tribunal is interesting as well. But I guess the biggest difference and the discrepancy that I was referring to before with James Gallagher, is that one is umpire abuse or alleged umpire abuse.
The other is a homophobic slur from a First Nations man that has transgressed in the same way before. And I think the latter is far more delicate and far more concerning because of the community that is around that and the LGBTIQA plus community that is clearly impacted by those sorts of words.
So as much as I feel for the umpires in this situation, I feel for Butters and Port Adelaide, I feel for that community far more because I think it's far more wide ranging. It's less about the football and more about language in our society. But I hear your point. There are similarities in both. Thank you, James, for your call. Some text messages are coming through.
The Butters case will be thrown out straight away on appeal just on the basis of legal process, let alone the flimsy evidence? How can a juror leave the proceedings during closing arguments and reconnect while driving a car? A clown show. He was particularly short on that answer, wasn't he, James Gallagher? Morning, Tom. You need to get the umpire's point of view. The players are not angels.
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Chapter 4: How do the cases of Collard and Butters compare?
Now, I'm really strong about this. I'm a gay, masculine male. My father is extremely masculine male. Three of his children turn out to be gay men out of four. God knows what he would have thought back in those days. And I think what's happening with Lance is I don't think this is productive or constructive for him. In actual fact, it's like a punishment what's going on for him.
I don't know how Lance is thinking and I'm not Lance. but taking away possibly the one thing that he loves, playing the game of AFL football, where for some footballers, that football field is their sense of peace. It's their way of getting away from other issues in their life.
And for him taking that away, I'm not saying what he's done is right by any, I don't think there's any right or wrong about it, but I think we need to be more constructive and productive with how we look at these type of issues. So maybe for Lance's, his environment, his culture of how he's brought up is where he's at his own point today.
So I think maybe looking at setting up not so much community service, because that can still be seen as a punishment and a dilemma to him, but maybe linking with the gay community and some gay masculine males and having opened his eyes up and said, Well, guess what? There are other gay masculine males out there just as masculine as you are who happen to be gay.
And maybe linking with them and opening his eyes and set up a program with him over a period of time and others, And I think that's the way we need to go. Not punish him because we're just isolating him and that's destructive for him.
Yeah, Paul, I really appreciate your thoughts and how considered they are. So that might work for Lance Collard. It might work for any player that's in this situation in the future. Hopefully there's not, but if it does happen again. Do you think the AFL and the competition as a whole
needs to worry or have a an eye towards the optics uh setting an example for others do you think that is a consideration when handing down a sanction to players who have now offended more than once i i don't so i think when someone's sanctioned being pensioned the first one we need to look at that and cut it right there so then we stop it happening a second time so what's happened with lance and
the outcome of what the AFL... Look, I'm not saying the AFL are wrong. As I said, there's no wrong or right. They look from maybe from their point of view, and I won't put words in there, they may look at it from the point of view they have to be seen to be doing something about this, that we can't accept this in the game.
But I'm not sure first-time punishment that was given, that hasn't been productive for him, which has allowed this to happen a second time. So I think the AFL need to look at
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Chapter 5: What concerns were raised about umpire decisions?
Now, I say that not lightly, but isn't Butters one of the most fine players in the competition at the moment? And it would be reasonable to suggest, therefore, that he can't control his emotions or his anger in the heat of battle on the field. And this is just another example of that. Having said that, I do believe the tribunal have acted inappropriately.
And given what we know, I don't believe how they can put more weight in the testimony of an umpire than the testimony of a player. I think they should have, in the absence of any evidence, just warned both parties and moved on from there. But I do believe, and I can't believe I'm saying it, that Butters said it and the umpires were correct in this instance.
I think that's a pretty balanced take, Albert. Appreciate you jumping on. Let's go to Adrian in South Morang. Welcome, Adrian.
How you going, Tommy?
Well, thanks. How are you?
Yeah, very well. Yeah, just want to weigh in on the Butters situation. Is the tribunal, like, isn't it like a court of law where it's sort of innocent until proven guilty?
Because the evidence, unless there was other evidence that, you know, wasn't broadcast to the public, you know, I tried to slow down the Fox footy snippet and the Channel 7 snippet on, you know, Instagram and I tried to slow it down on my computer and I just couldn't make out anything that was said because the crowd noise overtook it.
So I don't know if there's another snippet that we, the public, the fans haven't heard. I thought if you're not proven guilty, you're innocent, if that makes sense.
Yeah, and I hear you, Adrian. I think with these ones, and a barrister actually texted in yesterday, in the absence of evidence, often the tribunal or juries can make assessments on the balance of probability, and they clearly felt as if, in this case, Nick Foote's
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