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What's That Rash?

Tonsils, appendix, gallbladder: is anything actually useless?

28 Apr 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What are vestigial organs and why are they still relevant?

0.031 - 6.21 Tegan Taylor

ABC Listen. Podcasts, radio, news, music and more.

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7.068 - 25.065 Peter Martin

I'm Peter Martin, host of The Economy Stupid, where we find economics in relationships. She only wants a man if he's really, really good. In the Reserve Bank board. I knew, I knew. Everybody on the board knew recession was coming. And in food.

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25.145 - 29.749 Norman Swan

It's about the cup of diesels required through the life cycle to get that chicken patty on your burger.

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29.89 - 36.636 Peter Martin

The Economy Stupid. Search for The Economy Stupid on ABC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.

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37.392 - 40.973 Norman Swan

So do you have an appendage you'd rather not have?

43.012 - 48.34 Tegan Taylor

Um, no, I think my body is fine, just as it is. What are you trying to tell me, Norman?

48.36 - 68.709 Norman Swan

Nothing, just wondering, really. I've been pondering on that. You've been pondering on my appendages? No, no, no. Well, really, it's an excuse for everything's about me. There's an appendage I'd rather not have. Is there? I'd quite like to have teeth that don't need fillings, you know? So there's lots of organs that I think I'd rather have in good shape rather than bad shape.

68.789 - 71.112 Norman Swan

But no, I'm quite happy with all my appendages.

71.21 - 78.543 Tegan Taylor

Fair enough. Actually, shall we do a little appendage checklist? I'm interested to know how many of these items you still have within your body.

Chapter 2: What roles do tonsils play in our immune system?

206.58 - 213.958 Norman Swan

And they're probably just a throwback to when we needed a full mouth of teeth, including the back, to chew on very difficult fibres.

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214.377 - 233.755 Tegan Taylor

So that's one thing. I think everyone, when I think about vestigial parts of the human body, I think about the tailbone, the coccyx, which, I mean, the name is there. We used to, well, our ancestors had tails. We don't. There's still a bone there. There you go. I wouldn't want to get rid of it, but it's not like we've got a tail waving around behind us anymore.

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234.115 - 238.559 Norman Swan

And then there's the plica semilunaris. Some people might say plica semilunaris.

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238.859 - 242.022 Tegan Taylor

I don't say either because I'd never heard of that thing before you said it just now.

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242.508 - 251.052 Norman Swan

So it's when you're gazing into your loved one's eyes and you see in the corner of their eye, you know, next to the nose, a little fold in the conjunctiva.

251.914 - 253.137 Tegan Taylor

Oh, like a third eyelid.

253.418 - 256.085 Norman Swan

And that's exactly what it's the vestige of.

256.487 - 257.65 Tegan Taylor

Like a crocodile.

258.011 - 263.99 Norman Swan

Yeah. So maybe you've married a crocodile. I mean, who knows? Have you married a crocodile? No.

Chapter 3: How do tonsillectomies impact long-term health?

409.503 - 433.215 Tegan Taylor

And Charles Darwin listed a whole bunch of things that he said were vestigial. And we've talked about most of them, ear muscles, wisdom teeth, appendix, tailbone, body hair, like you said. Weidersheim published a book called The Structure of Man in the late 1800s, talking about 86 human organs he considered vestigial. And one of them was, as you say, the pineal gland. And the more we look at

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433.195 - 449.399 Tegan Taylor

the more we see about how useful some of these organs are that we might not have otherwise understood. Like tonsils, for instance. We used to kind of whip them out the minute they got infected in kids. And now there's actually quite a high bar you've got to cross if you're going to have a tonsillectomy.

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449.64 - 455.148 Norman Swan

Well, in fact, they used to whip them out even before you got infected as a prophylactic procedure, classically on the kitchen table.

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456.79 - 459.394 Tegan Taylor

So you've still got your tonsils. You obviously dodged that when you were a kid.

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459.434 - 464.35 Norman Swan

Yeah, we didn't have a very big kitchen table, so... We didn't have a kitchen table. We couldn't afford one.

464.836 - 465.597 Tegan Taylor

Luxury.

465.617 - 489.533 Norman Swan

Yeah. So the tonsils can be an annoying organ, particularly in childhood, repeated infections. They can become enlarged, obstruct breathing, all sorts of issues with tonsils. And the temptation has always been to remove them to improve your quality of life and perhaps risk of serious infection occurring like a tonsillar abscess, for example, in the neck.

490.194 - 493.459 Norman Swan

But it turns out that tonsils are not a vestigial organ.

493.709 - 499.219 Tegan Taylor

No, they're part of our immune system. They're actually quite an important part of our lymphatic and immune system.

Chapter 4: What is the function of the appendix in the human body?

798.095 - 802.423 Norman Swan

Yes, I knew there were surgeries that you needed to have to be on Antarctica.

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802.792 - 816.698 Tegan Taylor

If you want to go to Antarctica for other reasons, it's fine. But there's some pretty gnarly reasons why if you're the doctor, because there's usually only one in Antarctica over winter, you're not allowed to have an appendix. Do you want to guess at what the reason for this is?

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816.718 - 818.421 Norman Swan

So you're going to have to appropriate it on yourself?

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818.401 - 835.887 Tegan Taylor

Yeah, because someone did. Someone literally took out their own appendix in Antarctica one winter. It was actually a Russian doctor in 1961. His name was Leonid Rogozov. And he, in my notes, I have this in all caps, removed his own appendix. He got sick.

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835.867 - 856.249 Tegan Taylor

realised he was able to diagnose himself with acute appendicitis, realised there was going to be no way to evacuate him and knew that without an appendectomy he would die. So he instructed his fellow Antarctic explorers on what to do, basically to hold the surgical retractors and a mirror, gave himself local anaesthetic, took out his own appendix.

856.449 - 866.845 Tegan Taylor

When he saw the state of his appendix when he opened himself up, he realised just how serious it was that it would have ruptured. without intervention. And he was back on duty two weeks later.

867.366 - 885.549 Norman Swan

What a hero. I mean, these days, the option exists to treat it with antibiotics. We recently covered this on our sister podcast, The Health Report. And the worry has been because when you get cancer in the appendix, it's a particularly unpleasant kind of cancer. And it's not one of those cancers that's been rising.

885.93 - 902.966 Norman Swan

And one of the theories here is that the trend to treat appendicitis with antibiotics has left appendices in place that may have malignant tissue. whereas otherwise they would have been removed with appendicitis, preventing the onset of cancer.

903.047 - 918.678 Norman Swan

Anyway, there's been a recent study suggesting that if that's the case, you can actually pick the people who may have a malignancy there, and it's usually a long course of symptoms in an older person, usually over the age of 60. So you can eliminate that sort of risk.

Chapter 5: Why is the gallbladder considered important despite being removable?

1103.61 - 1124.537 Norman Swan

If you're having recurrent tonsillitis, your life is miserable, you've developed abscesses, there's actually a risk from the infection itself, or you've got obstructive breathing, or a child has, get it out. With the appendix, it's similar. If you've got a grossly affected appendix and it's gone too far for antibiotics, then you want that out. And with the gallbladder, pretty straightforward.

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1124.557 - 1127.724 Norman Swan

If you've got gallstones and they're symptomatic, Probably better out than in.

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1128.387 - 1135.616 Tegan Taylor

Jane, Cass, thank you both so much for your questions. You can ask us a question by emailing thatrash at abc.net.au.

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1135.918 - 1137.544 Norman Swan

And who's written in this week?

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1137.743 - 1159.716 Tegan Taylor

Into the mailbag. Yeah. Rami says, big fan of you too, especially Dr. Norman and the Mediterranean diet, two of the MVPs. However, I am hurt over your fruit advice. This is in relation to our episode last week about whether you can get away with not eating fruit. Rami says, I have fruit as a meal anytime with some bread and olive oil. My wife marvels at that.

1160.097 - 1162.08 Norman Swan

Very Roman of you, Rami. Very Roman.

1162.988 - 1180.9 Tegan Taylor

The original Mediterranean. That's right. Christy says, I was listening to you talking about fruit and vegetables and it reminded me of my niece. Her dad is a plant biologist and I was in the shops with her. She had been told that she could pick a piece of fruit to have. I suggested tomatoes, cucumbers and capsicum because they are fruit too.

1181.681 - 1199.114 Tegan Taylor

She looked at me with the disdain that only a four-year-old can manage and said, there's no such thing as vegetables. Which is apparently because in plant biology, there's no distinction between fruits and vegetables. Apparently plants, just fruit to produce seeds. And it's all just a human social invention.

1200.696 - 1201.918 Norman Swan

Out of the mouths of babes.

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