AI and mental health: can we trust AI therapy?
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What percentage of people use mental health apps or AI chatbots?
It's hard to know the exact number of people, say, using mental health apps or AI chatbots. It's at least 25% of people. It's one in four. This is not rare.
Okay, real talk. Have you ever used AI as a therapist? It's okay, because you are not alone. Many of us are already using these tools. And I mean, I get it. It's cheaper, it's immediate, no long wait lists or awkward consultations. But as we heard last episode, it comes with some big problems too. So we are back again with Dr. John Toros, Director of the Digital Psychiatry Division at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center for our second episode on AI and mental health. And this time we are diving deeper into the world of AI therapy chatbots. With John and some fascinating contributors, we'll explore how can AI help with mental health care's biggest challenges?
The potential for AI to scale interventions to be able to reach millions of people across the world is enormous.
I would be helpful to bridging the gap, especially for younger people who are more versatile and live digitally.
I was actually genuinely surprised that it felt like my most empathetic listening friend was talking to me. It was very disconcerting. and what potential pitfalls need to be avoided.
I don't think it's currently all that clear for somebody that would like some support at four in the morning to know whether or not the product that they've happened to stumble upon on an app store is going to be helpful.
We've seen the rise and fall of mental health apps. We know where the story is going if we don't have clear rules of the road. So I'm going to put out there, it's anti-innovation not to want some type of oversight.
Welcome back to When Science Finds A Way, a podcast about the science changing the world. I'm Alicia Wainwright, and you're listening to the second part of our conversation with John Toros on how AI is reshaping mental health. Okay, let's get into it. Hi, John, and welcome back to the podcast.
Happy to be here again.
Okay, so we touched very briefly on the topic of Therabot's last episode. So let's dive into that side of the conversation. But I hear you wanted to ask me something first, so I'll let you take the reins.
Thank you. I'll be a host for a minute. But again, there's so much interest in what are these chatbots for therapy. I was just wondering, what is your experience? Have you tried any of these chatbots offering therapy or therapeutic services?
So in preparation for this episode and thinking about sort of my experience with my own mental health challenges and also my use of a therapist on and off over the years, I hopped on the AI chatbot service that I use for everything. And I just started engaging with it, having a therapeutic conversation. And I actually used two of them because I was curious how either would react. One of the bots was actually really not good. And it was kind of like, I don't know if you've ever... told a partner about your problems and then they just try to find solutions. They're like, well, you should do this, this, this, this, and that, and you just don't feel heard. That chatbot was like that. And then another one kind of skirted the line between, I understand that you might be feeling these things.
Have you thought about this? And I was actually genuinely surprised that it felt like my most empathetic listening friend was talking to me. It was very disconcerting because I wasn't prepared to think that it would do a good job and it did.
Yeah. There's definitely something there to them, right? That's why people are turning to them. We could talk about some risks, but they definitely can offer some therapeutic elements out of the box today, which is frankly impressive, right?
It's impressive, but it's also kind of scary because...
What are the potential benefits of AI in mental health care?
One chatbot, I walked away from that conversation feeling worse than if I hadn't had spoken to it off the jump. And with another one, I walked away feeling genuinely better. And I felt a little bit more empowered to understand my circumstance in a new light. So I think it's kind of scary because...
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Chapters
5 chapters
1
What percentage of people use mental health apps or AI chatbots?
0:00–4:34
2
What are the potential benefits of AI in mental health care?
4:34–7:26
3
What risks are associated with using unregulated mental health tools?
7:26–12:11
4
How can users ensure they are choosing safe mental health apps?
12:11–30:43
5
What is the difference between therapy bots and traditional therapy?
30:43–43:07