Chapter 1: What are the key themes in Christina Applegate's memoir?
From WQXR and Carnegie Hall comes Classical Music Happy Hour, a new podcast hosted by me, pianist Manny X. Each episode, we'll speak with a special guest, listen to musical gems, play music-inspired games, and answer questions from our listeners. The first episode drops March 4th. Listen on the NPR app. Just a heads up, this episode does have some strong language.
How often do you think about death? Every day? Because it's looming. I bought my plots already, okay? I bought them. And my friend and I are going to go take a picnic there. It's really pretty where it is. I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard, the show where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life, questions pulled from a deck of cards.
They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one back on me. My guest this week is Christina Applegate. I said to myself, take this all in. A few things became clear to me after reading Christina Applegate's new memoir. She wants no one's pity. She doesn't need anyone's approval, except maybe her daughter's. And she is a survivor.
On the outside, she was this megastar of TV and movies, but you can only compartmentalize pain for so long, and her new memoir feels like liberation to me. An MS diagnosis has made life hard in new ways, but this is a person who has fought for every moment of the life she has built for herself and takes none of it for granted.
Her memoir is called You with the Sad Eyes, and I'm so very happy to welcome Christina Applegate to Wildcard. Hi. Hi, Rachel. Hi. I'm happy to meet you. Nice to meet you. Thanks for doing this. Yeah. I'm excited. And we're just going to get going. Okay. With the memories round. Okay? Sounds good. Let's do it. So, first three cards in the memories round. You choose one, two, or three. Two. Two.
What's a place that shaped you just as much as any person did? The set. The set. Yeah. I know that sounds douché, but really. I mean, you did spend a lot of time on them. 50 years on them. So it really was a place that defined how I operate in the world, how I treat people, how I learned to be professional. Mm-hmm. how I learned to do what I do by watching and being and osmosis.
And so, yeah, I mean, it really was that place for me. How old were you the first time you worked on a set? Um... It's weird because I started so young, but I really like when I started doing like episodics, when I was like doing family ties and all that stuff, those are the memories that I have. And that's before I married with children and before I did this other show called Washington.
And so young, young teenagers, like 13, 12, 12, Charles in charge. I was 12, I think. But I had been doing it for a long time before that. I just don't have memory of it. They're in my diary somewhere. Did the set feel like a safe place to you? Absolutely. 100%. A lot safer than the place that I grew up in.
But at the time, given that that cancer that was in our life there for a while, when he was gone... This is your mom's partner. Yeah. It was just the two of us. And she was pretty great, I have to say. Nancy Pretty is a pretty great lady. So it was good. It's just I felt really like a family. Yeah. On set. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Moving on. Next three in memories. Three. One, two, or three. Three.
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Chapter 2: How does Christina Applegate cope with her MS diagnosis?
It didn't feel like the right word because I don't, you know, that's a hard one. But I do have worth. And I know that I'm important. And that's something that she really nailed into me, that I'm important. How did your mom do that? Because she was... You write in the book a lot about how your mom was struggling with her own sense of self.
Her own power was diminished by people in her life, especially that partner who was abusive. Her first husband, your dad, your biological dad, who abandoned you. I hate that word, abandoned. We're going to... I'm sorry. Let's strike it from the record. No, but I wish I'd...
It wasn't in the book because it brought up some feelings for some people that I know and I can't, I don't like saying that because it, I mean... Yes, he left her when I was three months old. Yes, that did happen. But I saw him intermittently my whole life. I understand. So I have to be very clear. And you had a relationship with him. Yes.
I mean, he would take me on every other weekend, and we'd go camping, and we'd do things. So he was in my life, let's say that. I feel like abandon makes it look like we never heard from him again, and I don't want that. Anyway, sorry, what was the question again? How did your mom teach you self-power when she was struggling with it herself? Because she could see that I struggled with that.
I was the little girl who went into the party, who stood in the corner, and when all the other kids were playing and laughing and knowing who they were. And I didn't know how to join them. So she would see that and it would break her heart. So she just kind of gave me this thing of like, you know, They need you more than you need them. And that was something that was like a big thing for me.
And that's not a bitchy thing to say. Then it also came into my work too, like with auditions, like just remember when you're going in there, they need you more than you need them. And that gave me power and worth. Yeah. Yeah. And you're a parent of a daughter. Yes, I am. And you have all that history to share with her. And does it make you revisit your own relationship with your mom?
And thank God she did what she could. And ultimately, parenting is just like releasing. Like, you do what you can, and then it's just... You release her out into the world. Yeah. And so, you know, Sadie knows a lot about what happened to me. You know, we've talked about it and stuff because I want her to know. And I really try to nail this in in the book as well.
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Chapter 3: What experiences shaped Christina Applegate's childhood?
But I nail it in in my life is that I want her to know I get it. Like whatever it is, I've probably gone through it. You're not alone. You have me always. Yeah. come to me first. Come to me first. You're going to go to other people and get all sorts of opinions from people that know nothing about what you're talking about, kiddo. But if you come to me, you've got me. No judgment.
Well, I was going to say no trying to fix. I'm always trying to fix because... We can't help ourselves, you know. We want to put a Band-Aid on that scratch. Yeah. How old is she? She's 15. Yeah. So we're in a stage right now, you know. It's an age. That's all I'm going to say. 15 is an age. Okay, last one in this round. One, two, or three. I'll do one.
What period of your life do you often daydream about? Dancing. Yeah. Say more. People may not know this about you. Dancing is my love. It's my first love. And I started dancing at three years old and became, you know, it's all I wanted to do. I wanted to be a professional dancer. I wanted to dance on Broadway.
I, my mom used to take me to New York all the time because I had, my grandparents were in New Jersey and, uh, I was seeing stuff like the original casts of 8 Misbehavin' and The Wiz and everything, like all these incredible people. That was before they changed the age to 15. I was so lucky because I was probably like six or seven. A chorus line, you know, which is...
A six-year-old probably shouldn't be seeing it. Tits and ass. But I also shouldn't have been seeing all that jazz. And I saw all that jazz a million times. I don't know how we had all that jazz at home a million times to watch. But that's one of my favorite movies of all time. And that was my dream. And then I became an actress. So... That kind of went on hold, but not ever in my life.
Like I would leave set and go to dance class until 11 o'clock at night, no matter what. And what did it feel like in your body when you say that's what you daydream about? Can you can you conjure what it felt like in your body to inhabit it that way? Well, once I found these teachers that were doing lyrical, which was I was about 15, I guess.
And, you know, before that, we're you know, you just did jazz. You know, not jazz hands. I never did a jazz hand in my life. I love that, like, non-dancers think that's what we just run around doing. But I found this man named Doug Caldwell. God rest his beautiful soul. He was teaching this class with music that was just, like, filled you. Like, filled your whole heart. Like...
It could either be completely devastating or completely uplifting. And you just closed your eyes and you felt it tingle through your fingertips, like everything. And it was, we called it church. Like all the dancers in class were like, oh yeah, I'm glad you came to church tonight because we just felt like, We would be transformed in those two and a half hours, completely transformed.
And so to me, dancing, because I'm a disabled person, I can't dance ever again, and it breaks my heart, you know. And, you know, I did get to do my Broadway. I did get to do my Sweet Charity, my Bob Fosse. I did. That story, Christina, is so beautiful and also heartbreaking. Horrific. It's so horrific. Oh, my God. I had no idea.
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Chapter 4: How did Christina's mother influence her self-worth?
And I knew I had to go back there. I knew I need to let them out. And because it's stuff that there are things that, yes, I've told my friends that were pretty horrific and my things that my friends had seen. And they always go, they always would say, you should write this shit down, man. And I was like, one day when I'm ready, I don't have the time and I'm not ready. And right now I'm ready.
Yeah. Was there hope that there would be, in your retelling of a lot of the abuse that you suffered, that there would be some accountability that would come from, in some cases, naming people and others not? Well, those who are named are no longer with us, so I didn't feel like there'd be any accountability there. And the names that I don't mention, no, of course not.
And you got to be real careful with that stuff. But there's catharsis in there for you, at least. Yeah. I think by naming the man that was with my mom, which I think is going to shock a lot of people that he worked with and stuff. And I don't care. I've been so angry with that person for my whole life. And he's been praised and lauded by the people in his industry for so long.
And I was the little girl that was always around everybody. I was the little girl in the wings at the concerts. And I kind of want them to know what he was doing. Yeah. How was your mom with you writing all this? Freaked out. Yeah, I imagine. And I had to say, Mom, listen, you're going to read it, and at the beginning, you're not going to like the things that I'm saying.
But I hope you realize that it is a love letter to you as well. And she was like, it took her a really long time because I had advanced copies, you know, long ago. And she wouldn't read it, wouldn't read it, wouldn't read it. And now she is. And she's like, she's blown away. And she loves it. Before we end this part, can I ask you about Dead to Me? Because I loved this show. Of course.
I loved it, too. He did this with Linda Cardellini. This, to me, was one of the most authentic representations of female friendship I had seen on screen. I just loved that relationship. I wept at the end of that show. Well, first of all, I have to give props to Liz Feldman because this was all her. The showrunner. You know, she didn't waver from... her ideas.
We couldn't even get through that stupid scene. The last scene is you and Linda Cardellini. You're like in bed. You're like on this vacation. You always dreamed about going to the beach and you're just in your friend zone snuggling. And, and you have to, the two of you are saying goodbye to each other. And in real life, the two of you were saying goodbye to each other.
It was the last scene we ever shot. Yeah. And Liz knew that it was not going to be an easy night for us. And that the crew was going to cry and that we were going to cry. And so she made sure that no matter what the schedule was, that that is the last thing we do. And we were crying so hard, Rachel, that she would have to keep coming in going, guys, pull it back. Pull it back.
And Linda and I were like... Do some acting. Hold it together and do some acting. Linda and I were just like, we can't because I love her. It was... So what you're seeing is literally Linda and Christina sobbing their eyes out. Like Jen and Judy were gone in that particular moment. And she had held me up so much that season, that girl, literally and figuratively.
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Chapter 5: What challenges did Christina face in her acting career?
As a beautiful person who is not just a beautiful soul, but the beautiful soul that was a good match for me to partner with. And it just took me a very long time to figure that out. Some people figure it out early. And it took me a minute to figure it out. And so, yeah. And I keep learning that. Yeah. Good answer. Thanks, man. You expecting me to answer my version of it?
Yes, you still have to answer it. I have one love in my life, and that's my daughter. Yeah. Yeah. So to me, that's all I would do. Anything and everything for her. So that's what I know. You know, in my life, I didn't really think of love because I really never loved anybody, I don't think. I really didn't. Your mom? Well, my mom, yeah. But it was like I'd get mad.
You know, I'm talking about like in a place of like a person that can, in my eyes, can do no wrong even when I know they're doing wrong. Yeah. Unconditional or whatever that is. Yes, there you go. There's that word. It's close to unconditional. Yeah. But it means, I get it. I mean, I feel that for my kids too. Yeah. So that's all I know now, you know.
And that's what I've learned, that that exists. All the other stuff is handing me a rose and me swooning. That'll never happen for me. So for me, I get her. I get that love. And that her love towards me when she shows it is like it's giving me that rose. It's like...
I get so lifted up when she comes in in the morning when she goes to leave for school when I can't drive her because I'm doing stuff like this. And she just hugs me. Or she'll come and crawl into the bed for a minute. And it's always just a minute. But it's the best minute of my life. Man, she's 15 and she'll give you a minute of snuggling? I think you're doing something right.
Oh, sometimes she'll give me a lot more than that. A lot of the parents that I know are like, wait, what? And I said, yeah, she gets under the covers and we'll watch a movie and she'll hold my hand in the car while we're singing and stuff like that. Yeah, I got a pretty swell relationship. She also hates me. Yeah. At the same time, but. She's a normal 15-year-old. Yep. Okay. Three.
One, two, three, three. That's the one I've been staring at. What's something you thought about yourself that you had to unlearn? Hmm. Honestly, I don't know because it's like I was going to say like resilience, but I've always had that. Yeah. I always knew that something was going to be better on the other side and that I was going to make it through no matter what.
As bleak and as dire as things had gotten in my life, there was always this sense of like, it's going to be okay. I think my anorexia that I dealt with for so long was something that I had to unlearn. And I had to kind of go, food is awesome. Food's awesome. And who cares? And who cares? And who cares?
And now, you know, I have this stomach condition, which I'm really honest about and which they can't figure out. It's been like four years now. And I can't freaking eat the stuff that I want to eat. And I want to eat it so badly. Like, I want escargot, you guys. I want it so bad. That's what you want? I really want escargot right now.
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Chapter 6: How does Christina Applegate view motherhood?
And it's the only... And why can't you eat it? It's the only living creature that I will eat. That you crave? Um... Yeah, it's the way they prepare it in France. It's like you've got to have it that way. And then the bread and then you dip it into the stuff. It's just like a mushroom. Anyway, I love that. I love truffle pasta. I love caviar. I'm so weak. Like I really have like a...
bougie taste. But the other day I was talking to my friend who comes and takes care of me on the weekends. I'm like, I want a veggie dog so bad. I want it so badly right now. And I can't eat it. It pisses me off. Is this connected to MS or no? I mean, I think it is because it all started when I got MS. MS. Or when my symptoms got worse. So I don't know. But it sucks because I freaking love food.
And then I'll be like, you know, I felt pretty good for the last few days. And I'll eat something that I love and end up in the ER. It's like the dumbest thing. Which is why you love Bravo. Because no one has told you yet that Bravo's bad for you. And so you can keep mainlining that. It's not bad for you. Don't even talk about that. No, it's not bad.
No, I mean a doctor hasn't told you, like the Escargot. The Escargot is bad for you. You can't have it. Bravo is fine for your health, and so you should keep absorbing it. That's what I'm saying. It's really good for your self-esteem, Rachel. And don't you dare talk about my Andy like that. I would never. It's gotten me through the worst of my times, so. That is for sure.
Take the happiness wherever we get it. One, two, or three? Two. When do you feel most free? When I'm watching Bravo. I get that. Honestly, I love it. I sit here. I come up with my impressions. I'm not making fun. They are literally impressions. I work on them to show no one. Housewives? Which show are we talking about? I watch every single show on Bravo.
Every single one that they have from, you know, the Shaws of Sunset now to the Valley Persian style to Southern Charm to Southern Hospitality to like Vanderpump Rules. Okay, where is the liberation? Where's the freedom? But literally. Because I'm performing. I get to sit here and perform to myself. These women, like the way they talk, the way their mouths move.
Yeah, when you do the impressions of them and you like superimpose yourself into those situations. Yeah, I could totally do like, I'm really sad that Andy didn't have me do like one of the scenes because he does that for people. Then he asks like, you know, some of the biggest actors in the world to reenact a scene. And I'm so sad he didn't have me reenact a scene because I've got them all down.
That seems like a real missed opportunity. I'll go back. He knows. We talked about me going back like at least once a week. Okay. Last round. One, two, or three. Beliefs. One. Who or what is your moral compass?
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Chapter 7: What role does humor play in Christina's life?
Jesus, I don't think anybody is. You know what I mean? I just don't, you know, I love it if all of us were moral. I, you know, I think this is just going to sound weird myself. No, like I'm pretty moral. I mean, I can be rude, you know, and I can make, do impressions, not make fun of, do impressions. But morality is a huge one to me. You know, I find that if morality and manners, big ones for me.
Why manners? A lot of people didn't have manners. People don't have manners. Like always say please and thank you. Eat correctly with your knife and fork, please. Don't stab it and be gross and talk with your mouth full. Okay. Next one. One, two, or three? Three. How often do you think about death? Every day. Mm-hmm. Because it's looming.
I mean, it looms for all of us, but for people who have a disease like this, you never know, you know? I mean, I bought my plots already, okay? I bought them. You bought your plots, plural? Yes, there's going to be three of us there. But I did. Mm-hmm. And my friend and I are going to go take a picnic there. It's really pretty where it is. I'm not going to say where it is.
I think it's a lovely thing. No, no, no. I don't want you to say where it is. Oh, shit. That's right. I forgot. I have to pick my tree out because they're going to plant a tree there because it's really sunny. And I want my visitors to not be sweating. Anyway, I like I've been thinking about this particular area of this particular place for so long. And I finally was like, is this available?
They're like, yes, it is. I was like, oh, my God, buying it now. Just buy it now. That way nobody has to deal with it. Do you think a part of you lingers around afterwards? Do you have any thoughts on that? Well, I mean, I talk about it in the book. There's a lingerer. we had a linger here for a while. He hasn't been around for a minute, but this was a friend of yours who died. Yeah.
Then you think came back and was hanging. Oh, his spirit. No, I know. I know. And I never really thought of it too deeply, you know, in that extent, but, oh no, this person was here. And, uh, A lot and very like made his presence very known. I don't know how it works, man, but I know that because I have this woman who's a doctor that comes to see me and she... She's not woo-woo. She's in scrubs.
And she said, you know, it's so weird. Every time I come into this room, I just keep hearing, to thine own self be true. To thine own self be true. And this person tattooed that on their chest two days before they died. So I knew that she could feel him. And I was already feeling him. So I know I sound like a cuckoo bird, but I swear to God, that dude was here. Now, is he him here in that place?
Is it a vibration? I don't know. But no, he was here. He was talking to me. He was making me sing certain songs and do weird things. Yeah. Do you think that is particular to him or is there – does that make thinking about dying more comfortable? No, I'm very not comfortable because I'm going to hurt my kid. My kid's going to be hurt. Yeah. So I get really scared about that.
I think it's now I'm like really afraid of it because of her. I can't – I don't know – I can't even talk about like, I don't know what her life's going to be like. And you don't know when it's going to be, could be like anytime. Yeah. Okay. Get the behind me Satan. Okay. Last one. Two. Two. What's an experience you wish you could give to every person?
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Chapter 8: How does Christina Applegate find joy in her daily life?
And you've got to teach. And you've got to be taught, you know. It's Ecclesiastes, basically, you know. Did not have that on my bingo card. I didn't know I was quoting Ecclesiastes. I'm not even quoting Ecclesiastes. I'm just making up my own Ecclesiastes. Right. For every time there is a season. Yes. Did you always want to be a parent? Like, did you know that about yourself?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. kids are like everything to me i've always been like a person that i loved being around children the gift it has given me many gifts but um i i loved that it has forced me out of myself um If you've lived a life, especially because I was an older mom, I became a mom when I was pregnant, 38 and 40. That's a lot of life.
It's a lot of time to be self-absorbed. And it was like such a gift to just kind of, I mean, lose myself in a good way when I say lose myself. Like, just de-center myself. It ain't about you anymore. Right. It so isn't at all. No, you can forget about yourself. That's just... I loved that I didn't, like this whole everything here didn't matter anymore. Yeah. Because she mattered.
That was all that mattered to me was that, you know, she kept breathing. Think about that. We, you know, the first part of their lives, we just want to make sure they're still breathing. And that's a huge, that's a huge responsibility, but it's a responsibility I would take on over and over and over again. We end the show the same way every time. Okay.
We call it a trip in our memory time machine. In the memory time machine, you go back and you revisit one moment from your past. It's not a moment you would change one thing about. It's just a moment you'd like to linger in a little bit longer. Which moment do you choose? Being on stage. Which one? Being in Sweet Charity. Yeah? Yeah.
Regardless of everything that had happened and what was going on offstage, being on it, that was glory. Christina Applegate. Her memoir is called You with the Sad Eyes. It is a wonderful book. Thank you very much for writing it. And thank you for talking with me. Thank you for having me, Rachel.
If you like this episode, go back and listen or watch our episode with Jeanette McCurdy from earlier this year. She's another former child star who battled some of the same demons that Christina did, including an eating disorder. And it is so impressive to see how she has managed to build the life that she wants after an undeniably difficult childhood.
This episode was produced by Summer Tamad and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was mastered by Josephine Neonai. Wildcard's executive producer is Yolanda Sangweni, and our theme music is by Ramteen Araboui. You can reach out to us at wildcard at npr.org. We're going to shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. Talk to you then.
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