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Wild Card with Rachel Martin

Joy Harjo thinks writing can heal regret

24 Apr 2025

Description

Joy Harjo is one of the most revered poets in the United States, but she took a winding path to get there. The former U.S. poet laureate spoke with Rachel Martin about a pivotal decision in her childhood that put her on the creative path and how she views writing as a way to have second chances. This spring, Harjo is releasing a new version of her book, For A Girl Becoming.To listen sponsor-free and support the show, sign up for Wild Card+ at plus.npr.org/wildcardLearn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

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Transcription

Full Episode

0.569 - 4.733 Ira Glass

This is Ira Glass. In Lily's family, there's a story everybody knows by heart.

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5.313 - 14.08 Unidentified Speaker (Brief Interjection)

If this story had never happened... All of us wouldn't be here right now. Sammy wouldn't be here. Nina wouldn't be here. Wally wouldn't be here. Anyone that we know wouldn't be here.

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15.361 - 23.447 Ira Glass

So what happens when Lily's mom tells her this story is not true? This American Life, surprising stories every week.

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24.127 - 32.542 Rachel Martin

Hey, it's Rachel. Just a heads up, there's a story about domestic violence in this episode. What's the biggest risk you've ever taken?

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33.722 - 47.545 Joy Harjo

Recently, to me, this is the biggest risk. I sat in at the Blue Note in New York. And when you say sat in... I played a song. You played? To me, that was like bungee jumping from the bridge of the Royal Gorge.

49.266 - 68.625 Rachel Martin

I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard, the game where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life, questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one question back on me. My guest this week is poet Joy Harjo.

68.925 - 75.528 Joy Harjo

Every poet has their themes, and I realize mine is transformation, what happens in those transformative spaces.

76.328 - 98.216 Rachel Martin

Joy Harjo is one of the most revered poets in the United States, and there are all kinds of reasons why that didn't have to happen. She actually studied pre-med in college. But as if to hedge her bets on that particular career choice, she began taking creative writing classes. And in the end, the arts won out. Stability be damned. Joy grew up in Oklahoma as part of the Muscogee Creek Nation.

98.616 - 117.106 Rachel Martin

But her stepfather forced Joy to suppress her creativity. She wasn't even allowed to sing in the house. That creative spirit could have died inside her. But when she was finally out on her own, she realized that making music and telling stories and writing poetry wasn't just something she wanted to do. It was something she had to do.

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