Prolific singer-songwriter Will Oldham has been able to maintain what Marc calls “a haunting and elated tone” over the course of his career, whether in his collaborations with other artists or under the name Bonnie “Prince” Billy. Will talks with Marc about how his music stems from the example of his artist mother, records checked out of the library, and his Kentucky roots. They also talk about his recent album The Purple Bird as well as Will’s acting career, which launched when he was a teenager and John Sayles cast him in the film Matewan. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Chapter 1: Who is Will Oldham and what is his musical background?
It just seems to be something that happens. That exhausted peace of mind. But look, today on the show, I talked to Will Oldham. Now this guy, he's been on my periphery for a long time, man. You may know him as Bonnie Prince Billy. He records under that name for most of his stuff. He's put out more than two dozen studio albums. And the latest is called Purple Bird.
He's also an actor who's been in movies like The Bike Riders, Wendy and Lucy and Old Joy, but also Mate One. Remember John Sayles and Will Oldham as a kid actually played the child preacher in that.
And it's a performance that before I never I found out that he was that guy years later after I knew about or I'd heard about or listened to Bonnie Prince Billy, because that role when he was a kid as that preacher kid was haunting and intense and and menacing. Er ist ein fundamentaler Teil dieses Films.
Und er ist, ich weiß nicht, ich habe ihn darüber gesprochen, ich kann mich nicht erinnern, wie alt er war, aber wahrscheinlich unter 20, weißt du. Und es war, es war, es war bemerkenswert. Aber jetzt ist Bonnie Prinze Billie einer dieser Leute, die nicht wie einige andere Drag City Künstler, das Label. who just are very prolific, put out a lot of work. And a lot of it is great.
I don't even know how you'd really classify Will. I guess there's a folk element, but he's not beyond doing kind of rock-ish records. And he's not beyond collaborating with people from other types of music. And he's quite the artist, this guy. And I was a little... I don't know if I was nervous... Ja, genau. Er und Matt Sweeney haben den tollen Superwolf-Rekord gemacht.
Ich hatte die Bonny-Prince-Billy-Rekorde schon. Ich habe sie hier und da gelesen. Aber der Superwolf-Rekord hat mir wirklich aufgefallen. Ich habe mit Sweeney darüber gesprochen. Dann bin ich aber in Will und Bonny-Prince-Billy-Rekorde angefangen. Es gibt viele lyrisch und musikalisch wunderschöne Arbeiten mit vielen verschiedenen Musikern. Als mir die Gelegenheit kam, mit ihm zu sprechen, I did.
I had this conversation that you'll hear today. And it's a very it's pro art. It's pro self-expression. It's pro poetry. It's pro finding your voice in what you do. It's pro community. It's all those things that are. that we still have to believe are important to maintain humanity and civilization the best we can. Communicating through expression and art and engagement. Can you dig it?
Can you dig it? It's a good conversation. I'm glad we met. He actually came out to see me down in Louisville when I was there, because that's where he lives. Him and his wife and some friends. They're kind of like... Rural Groovy. You know what I mean? Tonight I'm in Oklahoma City at the Tower Theater. Tomorrow night I'm in Dallas at the Majestic Theater.
Saturday I'm in Houston at the White Oak Music Hall. And Sunday I'm in San Antonio at the Empire Theater. Then Durham, North Carolina. I'll be at the Carolina Theater of Durham on Friday, March 21st. Charlotte, North Carolina. I'm at the Knight Theater on Saturday, March 22nd. And I'll be in Charleston, South Carolina at the Charleston Music Hall on Sunday, March 23rd.
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Chapter 2: What are the themes of Will Oldham's latest album, The Purple Bird?
Als ich es gehört habe, war ich wahrscheinlich 14 oder 15, etwas so. Und es hat vielleicht fünf Jahre vorher rausgekommen.
Aber es war eines von diesen Dingen, wo es so war, er macht es einfach in seinem Zimmer.
Yeah. It's a big deal.
Wait, is that a big deal? No. I know what the big deal was, because I just appeared in the movie as Chuck Plotnick. And I read the book.
I read the 33 and a Third Born in the USA, which covers a lot of that stuff.
Did Warren Zanes write that one? I don't remember who wrote it. Warren Zanes wrote the book on the making of Nebraska, Deliver Me from Nowhere.
Und ich denke, dass die Frage damals war, nachdem er diese Dinge gedreht hat, die eigentlich Demonstrationen gewesen sind, er wusste nicht, was er mit ihnen machen wollte, dass sie es jedes Mal versucht haben, es mit der Band zu machen, es so oder so zu machen, und er hat entschieden, dass sie versucht haben, die Songs im Studio zu drehen, was er auf der Gitarre machte, aber sie wollten die Rekordungen, die er auf dem T-Jack 4-Track machte.
Aber sie konnten nicht einen Weg finden, es auf Vinyl zu transferieren, mit der nötigen Qualität.
Nötig?
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Chapter 3: How has Will Oldham's acting career influenced his music?
Yeah, like this. Yeah. And you just scribble things?
No, most of it is like if I'm away from my real notebook, which is the like whatever six inches by nine inches one or whatever it is, six inches by eight inches, something like that. That's usually at home. I don't trust most things that happen when I'm traveling in terms of my brain. Really? Yeah. Musically, like when we're performing, I trust that, but I don't trust trying to write something.
But things don't just all of a sudden come, a little noodle, a little riff, a little turn of phrase, and you write it down on the plane and you're like, can't trust that.
Ich würde meine Meinung nicht in diese Position stellen. Es hat so viel zu tun, wenn wir auf der Straße Musik spielen. Mein Gehirn hat schon viel zu tun. Manchmal wird es eine Song sein, die wir spielen, und ich stürze auf eine Linie. Und ich stürze immer wieder auf eine Linie und denke mir, oh, ich glaube, das bedeutet, dass ich diese Linie wiederholen muss. Und dann wiederholen.
Und es ist etwas, das organisch passiert und du es änderst?
Es passiert organisch, dass es kaputt ist und ich kann es nicht erinnern, auch wenn ich es 70 Mal gesungen habe oder so etwas. Ich stürze jedes Mal. Ich schreibe es sogar auf der Setliste. Ich schreibe die Linie runter und denke, warum mache ich das? Offensichtlich will diese Linie nicht in der Song sein. So I gotta listen to it. Gotta listen to it, yeah.
I gotta listen to whatever delivered me that line to begin with. And then it's fun, because you're in shape anyway. You know, you're in fighting shape, but you just don't have the time to sit down. But one line, I can work on one line with the idea that I'm gonna throw it in the song tomorrow night. Sure. And do people notice? Or just you? I have no idea what anybody notices or thinks.
I mean, it's been really fun talking about this Purple Bird record, because people are... I don't... Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. But...
But it feels like a legit country record.
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Chapter 4: What is Will Oldham's perspective on collaboration in music?
Chapter 5: How does Will Oldham write and revise his songs?
Aber die Idee, dass man in einer Musikstadt ist, die seine eigene Geschichte hat. Und Legacy ist nicht wie L.A., wo sie alles machen. Ich meine, Nashville macht Nashville. Und es gibt diese Leute, die sagen, ja, ich kann dir genau das, was du bildest, oder was du in deinem Kopf hörst.
Or I'm going to actually get you something that's better than what you hear in your head. Because you didn't even realize what's possible.
That we have these people on call.
Yeah, that we have these people on call.
That's fucking amazing. But when you start, let's go through a little history, because I know that you don't do much acting anymore. No. And at some point you just turned on it.
Musikschedule und Schauspielschedule liegen nicht zusammen. Ich weiß nicht, ob jemand dich ausgesucht hat. Ich weiß nicht, wie viel Aufmerksamkeit sie dir geben.
Ja, es können Wochen sein.
Ja, und wenn man Musik spielt, sagt man meistens jemandem, hey, kannst du drei Tage auf diesem Film spielen? In zwei Wochen? Ich sage nein. Aber in 14 Monaten kann ich.
Richtig.
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Chapter 6: What role did Will Oldham's family play in his artistic development?
Ich glaube, ja. Also, während du Theater tust, hörst du Jonathan Richman und die Modern Lovers auf dem ersten Rekord?
I was turned on by an article in Spin that probably was from 1984 or 1985. So that's already late. Oh, it's very late. I think the record that came out when I started listening to him was called It's Time for Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers. It has Corner Store, Double Chocolate Malt.
So this is after he's almost exercised some of that Velvet Underground from him. Fully, fully, fully. Which he did very early on, yeah. Then when you're doing the acting, when do you start playing?
Mein älterer Bruder war ein Musiker, ist ein Musiker, ist ein toller Musiker und er hat angefangen, in die Louisville-Punk-Artmusik-Szene zu kommen und Rekorde zurückzubringen, you know, to the house and playing lots of... Er hat wirklich großartige Rekorde. Und dann hat er sich mit einigen ziemlich großartigen Kreativen in Louisville verabschiedet.
Das ist interessant, weil jetzt die Leute das hören. Und wie man über Punk denkt, muss man an der Zeit spezifisch sein. Denn es war wirklich ein Umbruch-Term für alles, was künstlich ist. Mike Watt hat mich auf das recht gelegt. Was Punk geworden ist oder was die Leute denken, ist nicht das, was es wirklich angefangen hat. Ja. So like what you're talking about is what, like the late 70s?
No, this would have been 82, 83.
So you got a lot of people, some people doing performance art, some people are doing body art, some people are doing soundscapes, other people are doing audiovisual things, that kind of stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. might call you by your first name. Right. Yes. People who just blew your mind. You know, they're like, hey Will, how are you doing? Thank God. What? You know, you're on the plane with the gods already.
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Chapter 7: How does Will Oldham view the Nashville music scene?
He's great, that guy. Yeah, Daniel London, he's great. But originally she had asked me to play that part, and I was deeply... Both parts are so intimidating, because one of them is somebody who has kind of yielded to Normie world, and the other one completely hasn't. And neither one is in a place where... Nobody aspires to be where either of these people are.
So if you're thinking like, as an actor, oh, I'm going to enter in and find the sympathetic aspects of this character. And you think like, but what if I become either one of these? I don't want to become either of these people, you know? And so she couldn't find somebody for the part Kurt that I ended up playing. And ultimately she's like, would you just do it? Because I can get...
I think I can get Daniel London and he's going to be great as Mark.
Well, the part of Kurt is like, you know, that guy who's just a little too old to be in that mindset. Yeah. It's a tragic but very specific character. And, you know, if you are in art worlds or around those people, everyone knows that, one of those guys. Yeah. And it just doesn't end well for them.
No. And, you know, whatever age I was was something, I don't know, 33, 34. Right. Still thinking like, Could I be this guy? I don't know what is happening in this world. I don't know what I do in my life. I don't have a retirement plan or anything like that. It's unrealistic, but I was paranoid.
Not only do I know this guy, but I could be becoming this guy. So when does that change? When do you realize that you're not that guy?
Was für ein Rekord? Ich glaube, es war wahrscheinlich kathartisch. Und ich glaube, als Old Joy rauskam, war es so, dass ich das Rekord The Letting Go in Iceland mit Balgir Sigurdsson gemacht habe, mit dem ich mich getroffen habe, weil ich für Björk geöffnet habe, als er viele Produktionen und Arrangements mit ihr machte.
Und ich habe mit dieser Frau, Dawn McCarthy, gearbeitet, die eine Gruppe von Fawn Fables hat, die in Cotati, Kalifornien ist. Und das erste Mal, als ich mit Emmett Kelly gearbeitet habe, und Jim White war auf dem Rekord, mein Bruder. Und ja, wir haben dieses Ding genommen. Es gibt einen Mann namens David Tibet, der ein Musikprojekt namens Current 93 hat.
Und an dem Zeitpunkt war er in diesem Zeitpunkt, in den frühen 2000ern, auf dem Weg, Die wildesten Ensembles, die at one point Sweeney was a part of, and Baby D. So it was just like, all of a sudden I knew every day that I wasn't desperately trying to figure out how to find a place for my... Mein Gehirn? Nein, mein Gehirn. Mein Bewusstsein, um zu gehen.
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