Air Wisconsin Airlines Corp. v. Hoeper (12-315)
argument 12-315Air Wisconsin Airlines Corp. v. Hoeper
Supreme Court of the United States
1h 0m
6 speakers
8 chapters
transcribed 6 days ago
official recording ↗
Transcript
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What is the central dispute about the facts and the ATSA statute at the start of the argument?
We'll hear argument first this morning
in case twelve
three fifteen, Air Wisconsin Airlines versus Hope. Mr. Cohn?
Mr Chief Justice, and may I please the court. Not even Mr. Hoper attempts to defend the decision below, and for good reason. Under the plain terms of the statute and consistent with this court's First Amendment precedence, truth matters. And airlines should not lose their ATSA immunity unless their statements are materially false. None of that is in dispute anymore. Also, not in dispute, I think, is that Air Wisconsin was justified in picking up the phone, calling TSA, and conveying certain core facts, namely that Mr. Hoper was mad at. to fight the airline, that he was a federal flight deck officer or F FTO, that he had walked out on his training, his last chance to keep his job, and he was about to board a plane.
I don't believe any of those facts are in dispute. What is in dispute is how those facts were framed or phrased to sit TSA on that call, how the report was packaged, and an assessment.
You you said it is conceded that uh that those things should have been brought to the airline's attention. Has that been conceded? I'm not sure. I think they conceded. I think they I think they said if it if they were brought, they should have been brought in a different fashion, but I'm not I'm not sure. They they have conceded that uh
I I believe they've conceded, Justice Scalia, that that those facts could have been convey conveyed justifiably. If we had conveyed those core facts using different words, there would not be any issue with the Well you can convey anything justifiably, sure. I agree with that. And the question, Justice Scalia, is whether we framed or phrased the report in an adequate manner. And in assessing that issue, the question comes down to how much breathing space airlines should be given in making these reports, how much room there should be for permissible characterization and expression in making these reports. And context should be kept in mind in answering that question. Three things in particular. First, these reports are being made by airline employees such as pilots and flight attendants and baggage handlers and ticket agents who are being told by TSA they have to report in real time, without an investigation, without calling their lawyer, without stopping to think on how to refine the perfect script, and they are being told to do this based upon their suspicions.
Mr. Power.
Can we go back to your um response to Justice Scalia. If you said that they The respondents conceded, but But isn't it the case that it's it was the Colorado Supreme Court? That said that the airline likely would have been amused. if they had r phrased the report more cautiously.
That's exactly what
Supreme Court, not the respondents.
Well I believe the respondents have also acknowledged that a call could have been made in conveying certain facts. You're completely correct, Justice Ginsburg, that the Colorado Supreme Court said we'd be likely immune if only we had used different words, and those different words are immaterial. That lower court engaged in hair splitting decisions.
reports have to be made on suspicion right away in real time by people like Baggage Hanniston. Your second point was
The the second point of context is that these reports are being made to TSA and other reasonable air safety officials for the purpose of passenger safety and aviation security. And TSA tells the airlines, if you have any doubt, report. If you see something, say something. And if you don't say something, and your third? And the third piece of context is the consequences of a failure to make a report can be catastrophic for passenger safety and aviation security. And that's why TSA says if you don't report sincerely held concerns, you might be sanctioned by us for failing to make the report, placing airlines between a rock and a hard place. All right, well
in this context it's not clear to me if what the issue is that's before us. My understanding is is that Uh there was no finding of falsity.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the central dispute about the facts and the ATSA statute at the start of the argument?
0:00–7:48
2
How do the parties define “material falsity” and why does it matter for ATSA immunity?
7:48–14:34
3
Why is the role of the jury versus the court in determining materiality being contested?
14:34–23:19
4
What arguments are made about the appropriate standard for materiality under the Aviation and Transportation Security Act?
23:19–30:39
5
How does the wording of a report (e.g., “angry” vs. “mentally unstable”) affect TSA’s response and airline immunity?
30:39–37:39
6
What expert testimony is offered on how TSA would have acted on different statements?
37:39–44:51
7
Why do the advocates urge the Court to clarify the material‑truth test and avoid hair‑splitting distinctions?
44:51–52:27
8
What final relief do the parties seek from the Supreme Court regarding ATSA immunity and materiality?
52:27–1:01:14