Barnes v. Felix (23-1239)
argument 23-1239Barnes v. Felix
Supreme Court of the United States
1h 15m
8 speakers
8 chapters
transcribed 1 month ago
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What is the factual background of the Barnes v. Felix case and the Fourth Amendment issue at stake?
We'll hear argument first this morning in case twenty three twelve thirty nine, Barnes versus Felix. Mr Zelensky?
Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the court, we are here today because Ashton Barnes was shot and killed on the side of a Texas highway after being pulled over for unpaid tolls. The question before this court is how to determine whether Ashton's Fourth Amendment rights were violated. The Fourth Amendment prohibits unreasonable seizures. Justice Scalia was no fan of a totality of the and the circumstances test. But in Scott, Justice Scalia made clear that courts must slosh through the fact bound morass of reasonableness. In this case, the District Court and the Fifth Circuit didn't do that. Instead, they applied the moment of the threat doctrine. According to the Fifth Circuit decision below, quote, we may only ask whether Officer Felix was in danger at the moment of the threat, and quote, any of the officers' actions leading up to the shooting are not relevant.
This kind of legal amnesia is incompatible with precedent, conflicts with common law, and defies common sense. Until now, respondents had embraced the moment of the threat doctrine. But before this court, respondents have abruptly shifted position. They now argue that courts should look to what occurs before the moment of the threat and apply the law of self defense and superseding cause. Absolutely none of this appears in the decision below. All of it confirms why the moment of the threat doctrine is so wrong. Finally, as Judge Higginsmotham underscored in his concurrence, the facts show that Officer Felix acted unreasonably. But this is a court of review, not of first view. The Court should rule for petitioner on the sole question presented and remand for the lower courts to apply the correct constitutional standard.
I welcome this Court's questions.
Uh under your approach, what would that correct standard look like and how would it be applied here?
Uh Justice Thomas, we think it the standard is the totality of the circumstances standard that this court articulated in Graham, Garner, Scott, and Plumhoff. In this particular case, it would require looking at more than just the two seconds in which Officer Felix was on the moving vehicle. It would require asking, was there a reason for Officer Felix?
How much more of than the than the last two seconds?
Justice Thomas, if you include an extra three seconds, then you would look at the seizure in its totality. I think that this court shouldn't be drawing bright line rules on exactly how much of the seizure should or shouldn't come in. That's what Justice Scalia underscored in Scott. There are no rigid rules. And courts can apply ordinary principles of relevancy and approximate cause to determine the reasonable normalness of a seizure.
Was it reasonable to for the officer to um Jump on the side of
the car. So uh uh Justice Kapanau, we don't think it was in this particular case, but that's precisely the issue that the lower courts couldn't evaluate because they applied this legal amnesia and only look at the fact that the officer was on the moving vehicle. Judge Higgamotham, in his concurrence, looked at the totality of the circumstances and said, I think it was unreasonable in this case. We want the opportunity for a court to be able to look at the city. look at that and uh for us to be able to litigate that court claim.
officer is supposed to do when at a traffic stop and someone um Pulls away, just let him go.
No, Justice Kavanaugh, I think there are a number of other options that were available to Officer Felix that day. Let me give you four. First, um the highway was a camera-controlled highway. So you can monitor all the cars by camera. That's in fact how uh Ashton Barnes was pulled over in the first place. The cameras automatically identified his car as one with unpaid tolls. Second, he could have radioed to somebody else on the road to follow. Ashton Barnes. Third, he could have gotten back into his squad car and followed him. And fourth, they also had the car's license plate.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the factual background of the Barnes v. Felix case and the Fourth Amendment issue at stake?
0:00–9:18
2
How do the petitioners define the “moment‑of‑threat” doctrine and why do they argue it is wrong?
9:18–18:05
3
What is the “totality‑of‑the‑circumstances” test and how does it differ from the moment‑of‑threat approach?
18:05–27:29
4
How does the United States government view the officer‑created‑danger theory and its impact on qualified immunity?
27:29–37:28
5
What practical guidance do the parties propose for police training and decision‑making during traffic stops?
37:28–47:14
6
Which circuit courts are split on applying pre‑force facts, and what precedents do they cite?
47:14–55:31
7
Why do the petitioners request a vacatur and remand rather than a full opinion on the doctrine?
55:31–1:05:19
8
What are the final arguments and conclusions presented to the Supreme Court in this oral argument?
1:05:19–1:15:55