Carr v. Saul (19-1442)
argument 19-1442Carr v. Saul
Supreme Court of the United States
1h 1m
8 speakers
8 chapters
transcribed 5 days ago
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What is the Supreme Court’s position on issue‑exhaustion for Social Security claimants in Carr v. Saul?
We will hear argument this morning in case nineteen fourteen forty two, Carr versus Saul, and the consolidated case. Ms. Harris?
Mr Chief Justice, and may it please the court. Social Security claimants do not need to challenge the constitutionality of their ALJ's appointments and ALJ proceedings to obtain judicial review of that issue. First, under Sims versus Apple. When an agency holds non adversarial proceedings and does not depend on parties to identify the issues, Courts should not imply an issue exhausting requirement on their own. Sims declined to imply an issue exaction requirement for appeals counsel proceedings. and invited the SSA to promulgate such a rule, but the agency never did. Twenty years later, appeals counsel and ALJ proceedings are still non adversarial and informal. Both conduct a plenary review and must develop arguments for and against benefits.
Indeed, the appeals council must spot even errors the claimants didn't raise to ALJs. Courts should not penalize claimants when the agency itself does not care what claimants raise to ALJs and has never notified them of an issue exhaustion requirement. Second, the government relitigates SIM. which rejected the government's universal default rule of issue exhaustion. SIMS also rejected the government's concern that courts would be stymied by applying social security regulations to technical, fact based questions the agency hasn't considered. Under SIMS, courts routinely entertain fact heavy issues that the agency never passed upon because the error first appeared in the ALJ's decision and the claimant didn't raise it to the appeals counsel.
Third, at very least, this court should not require claimants to exhaust appointments clause challenges. Constitutional questions are beyond the agency's competence. And raising the appointments clause was futile. The government knew about the appointments clause problem, didn't fix it, and barred ALGs from considering it. May welcome questions.
Uh Miss Harris, under your theory, um what would prevent a claimant from arguing before the ALJ that he has a leg injury uh and then arguing for the first time in district court that he also has a back injury so that he can get a uh you know, a second bite at the apple to recover an award?
Well I think twenty CFR uh four oh four dot fifteen twelve would squarely prohibit that because the burden is on the claimant to establish disability and that includes raising impairments. So while the ALJ has the duty to develop all the facts, there is a bar on raising new evidence or, you know, a new round of disability in court for the first time. And I think that's something that just goes to show there are a lot of guardrails already built into the nature of the Social Security Judicial Review Scheme, then ensure that courts are not going to be inundated with any sort of technical questions that are beyond their can that the agency needed to weigh in on first. Um and other guardrails include things like the four hundred oh five G uh textual standard that prohibits in general claimants from raising new evidence in court for the first time, the substantial evidence standard under which courts
Affirm the ALJ if there's more than a mere scintilla of evidence supporting the ALJ's determination. Um and then also in addition to the regulation I cited requiring claimants to actually identify their disability, courts can of course remand if the agency requests a remand uh so that the agency could consider those technical questions if there were some sort of issue. Uh and that again I think reflects the the current practice as well.
Uh isn't it uh an important distinction between the appeals counsel and the ALJ hearing um you know that the ALJ proceeding is the is the first step that sort of is when everything gets uh uh uh put on the table um and it seems that it might make more sense to require you know the waterfront to be covered uh there um i even if it isn't at the appeals council.
Well I I disagree with that assessment. I mean the ALJ is a third step out of four in the remedy exhaustion process and the ALJ proceedings by regulation reassure claimants
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the Supreme Court’s position on issue‑exhaustion for Social Security claimants in Carr v. Saul?
0:00–9:01
2
How does the Sims v. Apple decision shape the Court’s view of non‑adversarial SSA proceedings?
9:01–16:29
3
Why does the government argue that appointments‑clause challenges should be waived before the agency?
16:29–24:47
4
What are the arguments about “sandbagging” and raising new evidence at the district‑court level?
24:47–32:42
5
How does the de facto officer doctrine relate to the appointments‑clause issue in this case?
32:42–39:32
6
Why hasn’t the SSA adopted an explicit issue‑exhaustion regulation, and what are the policy implications?
39:32–45:18
7
What is the estimated impact of the appointments‑clause claim on pending Social Security cases?
45:18–53:17
8
What remedy does the Court consider appropriate for alleged unconstitutional ALJ appointments?
53:17–1:01:36