City of Grants Pass v. Johnson (23-175)

argument 23-175

City of Grants Pass v. Johnson

Supreme Court of the United States 2h 25m 8 speakers 8 chapters transcribed 8 days ago official recording ↗
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What is the opening argument about the City of Grants Pass camping ordinance?

John G. Roberts 0:00
We'll hear argument first this morning in case twenty-three one seventy five, City of Grant Pass versus Johnson. Ms. Evangelist?
Kiran Ahuja 0:08
Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the Court. Like cities nationwide, Grants Pass relies on camping laws to protect its public spaces. These generally applicable laws prohibit specific conduct and are essential to public health and safety. The Ninth Circuit tied cities' hands by constitutionalizing the policy debate over how to address growing encampments. Its holding that the Eighth Amendment bars grants pass from enforcing its camping laws is wrong for three reasons. First, the cruel and unusual punishments clause governs which punishments are permitted, not what conduct can be prohibited. Second, no precedent supports the Ninth Circuit's rule. Respondents in the United States abandon its reliance on Powell.
Kiran Ahuja 1:00
Instead, they misread Robinson to bar any punishment for involuntary conduct that's linked to a status. But Robinson held only that states cannot outlaw the status of drug addiction. It made clear that they can prohibit conduct like drug use. This court should not rewrite Robinson six decades later. Third, the Ninth Circuit's approach has proven unworkable. The Eighth Amendment does not tell courts who is involuntarily homeless, what shelter is adequate, or what time, place, and manner regulations are allowed. But in 35 suits and counting, federal courts are now deciding everything from the exact size of campsites in San Rafael. Fo. to the adequacy of empty beds at specific shelters, like the Gospel Rescue Mission in Grants Pass.
Kiran Ahuja 1:54
And cities are struggling to apply arbitrary shifting standards in the field. This court should reverse and end the Ninth Circuit's failed experiment, which has fueled the spread of encampments while harming those it purports to protect. I welcome the court's questions.
Clarence Thomas 2:11
Uh, do you consider these uh civil or criminal penalties?
Kiran Ahuja 2:17
They are both Justice Thomas. Uh there is criminal trespass and
Clarence Thomas 2:23
is that involved in this case?
Kiran Ahuja 2:24
Yes, it is.
Clarence Thomas 2:26
To what extent? I mean has any of the petitioners at of any of the parties here been subject to criminal trespass?
Kiran Ahuja 2:35
Uh well they are at issue in the case the district court enjoined them and yes they they do apply here. Um they are for recidivist uh offences.
Clarence Thomas 2:45
But which party has been and held accountable for criminal trespass.
Kiran Ahuja 2:53
Uh yeah, so here none of the uh individuals who are currently in the case.
Clarence Thomas 2:57
So what's involved in this case?
Kiran Ahuja 3:00
Um for Logan and Johnson, uh civil the civil penalty.
Clarence Thomas 3:05
And so what is it the anti camping or what is it?
Kiran Ahuja 3:10
Yes, it is.
Clarence Thomas 3:11
Okay, so that's civil or is it criminal?
Kiran Ahuja 3:14
Uh the camping ordinance is civil and then for repeat offenders it's punishable. Okay, so but we're
Clarence Thomas 3:20
not talking about repeat offenders right now, right? That's correct. So ne so then Have we ever applied the Eighth Amendment to civil penalties?
Kiran Ahuja 3:32
Uh not the cruel and unusual punishments clause. No.
John G. Roberts 3:38
Council, um what will the city do if you don't prevail here?
Kiran Ahuja 3:43
The city's hands will be tied. It will be forced to surrender its public spaces as it has been. Unfortunately, beds are going unused at the Gospel Rescue Mission. People are not getting the help that they need. The city is under an injunction here and it's unable to rely on these basic ordinances. And the Ninth Circuit's decisions give cities like Grants Pass no guidance about how they can navigate this very challenging area. The Ninth Circuit has effectively imposed a municipal code under the Ninth Circuit's uh Martin rule to regulate what the city can do in its public spaces.
Elena Kagan 4:26
Council, can I just stop you a moment? The gospel uh unused beds, they're less than a hundred, right?
Kiran Ahuja 4:33
That's correct.
Elena Kagan 4:33
And there's thousands of homeless.
Kiran Ahuja 4:35
Uh there are I believe as many as six hundred in Grants Pass according to the district court. But
Elena Kagan 4:40
there's still only less than a hundred bets.
Kiran Ahuja 4:42
That is right.
Elena Kagan 4:43
Now can I stop you a moment? Um W you uh are not asking us to overturn Robinson, correct?
Kiran Ahuja 4:52
We think Robinson was wrongly decided and should not be extended, but we don't think that the court needs to overrule it here because

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