Erlinger v. United States (23-370)
argument 23-370Erlinger v. United States
Supreme Court of the United States
1h 33m
8 speakers
8 chapters
transcribed 8 days ago
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Transcript
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Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
What is the central legal issue in Erlinger v. United States?
We will hear argument first this morning in case twenty three three seventy,
Erlinger versus United States. Mr. Fisher. Mr. Chief Justice, may it please the court. Robust and clear precedent dictates the outcome here. And case after case this court has held that judges applying ACA may find only what crime with what el what crime with what elements uh a defendant was previously convicted of. Nothing more. Uh and the court has grounded that rule directly in the Sixth Amendment. A judge may not increase a defendant's sentencing range based on offense-related conduct that the prior jury did not need to find. ACA's occasions clause, as this court construed it in wooden, uh requires exactly that kind of factual inquiry. The whole point of the clause, in fact, is to require something more than just three convictions before an ACA sentence is imposed.
As such, the apprentie rule directly applies to it. That leaves Amikus' objection that the court should issue that straightforward analysis because applying the Sixth Amendment here would somehow harm defendants. But as the briefs filed by criminal defense organizations show in this case, that concern is unfounded. Guilty pleas, waivers, and stipulations in all candor make the occasions clause. not really an issue that's litigated in most cases. Uh but in the rare cases, in fact in the handful of cases a year where you're gonna have a defendant who disputes the the occasions issue as well as the underlying Section 922 G charge. Bifurcation is a time honored solution that courts have already shown that they can apply to resolve that situation and avoid any prejudice to the defendant.
The court should endorse that practice and reverse the Court of Appeals. I'm happy to take the court's questions.
Uh Mr Fisher, uh wouldn't it be more straightforward to overrule Almondar stories?
Uh obviously that is one thing the court could do uh if and when necessary. But
do you think we should?
I think the court should someday, but I don't know the court needs to do it in this case. Uh I think that our position in this case is what the court has already said in Mathis and Descamps. Uh makes perfectly clear that the occasions clause falls outside of Almandara's Torres. And I think, you know, the reason we didn't brief the case that way is because the Court's ordinary practice is not to consider overruling a case unless you had to.
But don't you have uh it it seems that you and the government can't agree where you draw the line, right?
I think Justice Thomas we agree on a whole lot. Uh so we agree that the test is whether or not uh it is the fact at issue is part of the prior conviction. And government uses the word integral to the prior conviction, we think inherent in the prior conviction. So we agree with the test. Uh we do have some quibbles perhaps on the margins of how that test would apply, but again, this case wouldn't present any of those issues.
Well Elman Taurus Taurus is a an established principle of an established precedent of the court that's been relied upon and reaffirmed in subsequent cases. So if we were to re examine that Would it then be appropriate to re examine the entire question that was opened up in apprentie? Or you would you just like us to open up the part that might yield a decision that's favorable to you.
Well I'm not even asking you to do that today because it's not a little bit of a but if you but if you did, I'd say I I I suppose fair would be fair and the court could go back to first principles and I think those first principles as the court's uh as the court's uh opinions and apprenties showed um you know would dictate the right to jury trial applies to to all facts necessary to include a jury.
Well that remains to be seen, but anyway. When you say I'm sorry, sorry. W when when you say that we should uh say something favorable about bifurcation, do you mean we should just say that it's a discretionary determination for trial judges or you want us to s hint more than that?
Well I think as I understand the argument on the other side, it's that you should not apply the Sixth Amendment here because it would prejudice defendants.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the central legal issue in Erlinger v. United States?
0:00–12:28
2
How do the parties frame the Sixth Amendment’s role in the ACA’s occasions clause?
12:28–23:08
3
Why does counsel argue that judges, not juries, should determine recidivism facts?
23:08–37:19
4
What historical precedents are cited to support the judge‑fact‑finding approach?
37:19–51:58
5
How is bifurcation proposed as a solution to the occasions‑clause dispute?
51:58–1:07:27
6
What concerns do the Justices raise about harmless‑error analysis in this context?
1:07:27–1:19:51
7
Why do the parties favor remand rather than a definitive ruling today?
1:19:51–1:30:40
8
What are the final arguments and takeaways as the Court wraps up the oral argument?
1:30:40–1:33:06