Fisher v. University of Tex. at Austin (14-981)

argument 14-981

Fisher v. University of Tex. at Austin

Supreme Court of the United States 1h 35m 4 speakers 8 chapters transcribed 6 days ago official recording ↗

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What is the central legal question the Supreme Court is addressing in Fisher v. University of Texas?

John G. Roberts 0:01

We'll hear argument uh this morning in case fourteen nine eighty one Fisher Версус the University of Texas at Austin. Before we get started, I'll advise the lawyers that this is our only case this morning, so we intend to grant the parties uh ten minutes or so of extra time and the amicus uh five minutes. So Mr. Ryan, no need to rush.

Unknown 0:23

Believe.

Ryan M. Bounds 0:26

Mr. Chief Justice, it may it please the court. Uh appreciate the extra time and uh I didn't rush up here to start before you invited me this time. Oh In reviewing the Fifth Circuit's initial decision in what we call Fisher One, seven members of this court reaffirmed that a clear precondition to the use of race as an admissions factor was the ability to satisfy what was called the demanding burden of strict scrutiny articulated in Grudder and Backey. By establishing that she was considered for admission to UT under a system that discriminated against her on the basis of her race. Ms. Fisher placed upon UT the burden of pr approving by evidence. of record that its use of race was First, in pursuit of a compelling constitutionally legitimate interest

Ryan M. Bounds 1:20

Expressed with sufficient clarity And concreteness to allow a reviewing court To determine first that the use of race was a necessary last resort in pursuing the interests defined, taking into account reasonably available non racial alternatives.

Unknown 1:43

If We didn't have the ten percent plan. If that were out of this case. And all that were left Well the Gruder like. plan. Would you then recognize that you had no claim. We have the what what the University of Texas has added on to the ten percent plan, but now we wipe out the ten percent And we have only The gruder like plant.

Ryan M. Bounds 2:15

Well I I with respect, I I would question the premise of the question because It's not a gruter like plan in its entirety. I know it's

Unknown 2:28

hypothetical.

Ryan M. Bounds 2:29

No, and and I'm saying even in the AAPIA system, it's not a grueter like plan. It's not a plan of shaping a class by individualized one to one comparisons. It's not aimed at a critical mass. Uh it's not a gruder plan in that sense. But I think the the other part of this is that's of course not the case before us. when you look at the satisfaction of a compelling interest, you look and ask Does my pre existing system satisfy that interest? Do I have a need to do something else? And if I have a need to do something, is that something else?

Elena Kagan 3:10

I know. You're you're you're putting aside need. What's wrong with this plan if need is put aside?

Ryan M. Bounds 3:19

Well let's p put it this way, we do not oppose the use of the various PAI factors that were in place before race was added. What's wrong with this plan, of course. No, no, no, no.

Elena Kagan 3:33

I know you're saying they didn't need to do it. I said, put it aside and answer Justice Ginsburg's question. If they had to use race. How are they using it improperly?

Ryan M. Bounds 3:46

If you have to use race and you want to use the model that was created in Backey and Gruder, you would need to build profiles of individuals that would allow you to Judge them one against another in the context of the class and the educational experience you are trying to create.

Elena Kagan 4:05

My God, that sounds like it's using race more rather than less than this plan does.

Ryan M. Bounds 4:10

I I'm sorry if it sounds that way, it is not. It simply says in a situation of a backy situation where you're looking at every aspect of an individual and you're trying to judge whether one or another of individuals for the f for places, the last places would gr most benefit the class. The class as a whole is a learning entity. then you can, as Becky indicates, take account of the fact that they may have different backgrounds which would contribute different ideas. Those are whole person comparisons. That this is not this system, that this system doesn't do anything like Backy. So it it's very different, even if you separate it from the necessity issue, which is of course a major issue in this case.

Ryan M. Bounds 4:53

But I'm assuming your question that they've shown that they needed to use race, there was no other way. to do whatever they were trying to do, which isn't clear to me either.