Greene v. Fisher (10-637)
argument 10-637Greene v. Fisher
Supreme Court of the United States
47 min
5 speakers
8 chapters
transcribed 5 days ago
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What is the Supreme Court’s rule on applying decisions before a state conviction becomes final?
We'll hear argument next in case ten six three seven Green versus Fisher. Mr Fisher.
Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the court. Any decision announced from this court before a state prisoner's conviction becomes final constitutes clearly established law for purposes of applying Section twenty two fifty four D of EDPA. For decades, in fact, it has been a bedrock rule under Teague and Griffith that state prisoners are entitled to the benefit of decisions from this court that come down before finality. And that rule has delivered fairness and clarity to an area that this court has acknowledged previously lacked it. There's no compelling reason to chart a new course now. There is no doubt that EDPA changed federal habeas law in many important ways. But it did not change.
habeas law with respect to retroactivity. For under this court's teague jurisprudence, states already had comedy uh where as opposed to other areas.
Mr. Fisher, we wouldn't have this uh problem, at least not in this case if your client had had sought cert, right? Because then presumably when his petition came before the court our normal practice would have been to G V R it because uh the the decision would come out the other way under uh under Gray, right?
If this court had G VR'd the case. No, if he had
sought cert. He can't very well G VR it until he seeks cert. And I think it I it's kind of a glaring factual Nuance to the case can have a That he didn't seek cert, and he also didn't seek state collateral review. I mean, if he had tried one of those or both of those, we we probably wouldn't be here.
Well let me take those one at a time, Your Honor. First with s with with the G VR request. Uh if he'd had counsel that would have advised him to seek cert, he may well have done it in this court and may well have G VR'd. But realize that this court isn't bound to do that. This court has discretionary jurisdiction. And I don't think this court wants to take on the responsibility. uh of deciding every single case that falls into a Twilight Zone situation. You're gonna have cases like this one very well would have in light of what the Pennsylvania uh the state filed in its own Supreme Court, wrapped up in procedural arguments, harmless error allegations, perhaps alternative straight grounds. And this court often uh dis has decided that habeas is the better place to work that out, not G VR.
Now it may well have G VR'd, but it I don't think the Court wants to take on that responsibility.
Why why? I mean normally a lawyer just looks to see what the doc is And when there's a case that seems to affect his case, he asks for search. In our practice normally, since I've been here is where it implicates a case, you hold it until the case is decided. Then the writing judge or other people look through it? and see if in fact it really does affect it. And if it does, we G VR. I mean, as a practicing lawyer here, have you discovered instances where we fail to do that, do you think?
Well I can think of let me let me take it one step at a time. I think there are cases that this court doesn't G V R because they're so procedurally complicated, the court leaves it. Uh and in fact I can think of one case right now in California. Uh after Melendez Diaz, there was a case called Geyer that came out of the California courts that this court did held for Melendez Diaz but did not G V R. In part because I think the state was making harmless error allegations there. And now the states of California are trying to figure out what to do in light of that.
Normally I think if it looks like a mess procedurally or whatever, is but the the normal assumption is you let the the lower court figure it out, send it back. And I I think the research is that in actually most cases in which we G VR, the court reinstates the judgment below for one reason or or another. But the idea that
we
parse through them carefully, I think if it's If it's arguable, send it back and let the lower courts sort it out.
Oh Let me get back to Justice Breyer's question though, with the assumption that if he has a lawyer, he's going to bring it up here.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the Supreme Court’s rule on applying decisions before a state conviction becomes final?
0:03–5:16
2
How does the argument address the need for a petition for certiorari and GVR in this case?
5:16–11:41
3
Why do the parties argue about the role of state collateral review versus federal habeas relief?
11:41–17:52
4
What is the significance of the Pinholster decision for retroactivity and new facts?
17:52–23:44
5
How do the justices interpret the past‑tense language of 28 U.S.C. § 2254(d)?
23:44–30:02
6
Why is the distinction between Teague and EDPA important for this case’s outcome?
30:02–36:31
7
What examples of state court decisions illustrate the interaction of Teague exceptions and EDPA?
36:31–42:39
8
What is the final conclusion about whether Teague continues to control clearly established law?
42:39–47:59