Hollingsworth v. Perry (12-144)
argument 12-144Hollingsworth v. Perry
Supreme Court of the United States
1h 19m
7 speakers
8 chapters
transcribed 5 days ago
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What is the Court’s stance on standing for official proponents of Proposition 8?
We'll hear argument this morning in Case 12-144, Hollingsworth
v. Perry. Mr. Cooper. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the Court. New York's highest court in a case similar to this one remarked that until quite recently, it was an accepted truth for almost everyone who ever lived in any society in which marriage existed. Mr.
Cooper, we have jurisdictional and merits issues here. Maybe it would be best if you could begin with the standing issue.
I'd be happy to, Mr. Chief Justice. Your Honor, the official proponents of Proposition 8, the initiative, have standing to defend that measure before this Court as representatives of the people and the State of California to defend the validity of the measure that they brought forward.
Have we ever granted standing to proponents of ballot initiatives?
No, Your Honor. The Court has not done that, but the Court has never had before it a clear expression from a unanimous
State's High Court. Well, this is — the concern is Certainly the proponents are interested in getting it on the ballot and seeing that all the proper procedures are followed. But once it's passed, they have no proprietary interest in it. It's law for them, just as it is for everyone else. So how are they distinguishable from the California citizenry in general?
MR. They're distinguishable, Your Honor, because the Constitution of the State of California and its election code provide, according to the unanimous interpretation of the California Supreme Court, that the official proponents, in addition to the other official responsibilities and authorities that they have in the initiative process, that those official proponents also have the authority and the responsibility to defend the validity of that initiative.
I guess the Attorney General of the State doesn't have any proprietary interest either, does he?
No, Your Honor.
But he can defend it, can't he? Nor did — Because the law says he can defend it.
That's right, Your Honor. Nor did the legislative leaders in the Karcher case
have any
particular enforcement.
Could the State assign to any citizen the right to defend a judgment of this kind?
Justice Kagan, that would be a very tough question. It's by no means the question before the Court, because it isn't any citizen. It is the official proponents that have a specific and carefully detailed — Well, I just
— if you would, on the hypothetical, could a State just assign to anybody the ability to do this?
Your Honor, I think it very well might. It very well might be able to decide that any citizen could step forward and represent the interests of the State and the people in defending — MR. Well, that would be —
I'm sorry, are you finished? MR. Yes, sir. MR. Okay. That may be true in terms of who they want to represent, but a State can't authorize anyone to proceed in federal court, because that would leave the definition under Article III of the Federal Constitution as to who can bring — who has standing to bring claims up to each State. And I don't think we've ever allowed anything like that.
But, Your Honor, I guess the point I want to make is that there's no question that the State has standing. The State itself has standing to represent its own interests in the validity of its own enactments. And if the state's public officials decline to do that, it is within the state's authority, surely, I would submit, to identify, if not all, any citizen or at least supporter of the measure, certainly those that very clear and identifiable group of citizens.
Well, the Chief Justice and Justice Kagan have given a proper hypothetical to test your theory. But in this case, the proponents, number one, must give their official address, they must pay money, and they must all act in unison under California law. So these five proponents were required at all times to act in unison. So that distinguishes and to register and to pay money for the privilege. So in that sense, it's different from simply saying any citizen.
But
of course it is. But can you tell me, that's a factual background with respect to their right to put the ballot initiative on the ballot.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the Court’s stance on standing for official proponents of Proposition 8?
0:01–9:54
2
How does the argument address the State’s interest versus the proponents’ private interests?
9:54–22:40
3
Why do the parties argue that marriage is a fundamental right independent of procreation?
22:40–32:41
4
What evidence is presented about the impact of same‑sex marriage on children and society?
32:41–42:59
5
How do the Justices compare Proposition 8 to historic cases like Loving and Baker v. Nelson?
42:59–51:37
6
What is the debate over applying rational‑basis versus heightened scrutiny in this case?
51:37–1:01:19
7
How do the parties view the role of state‑level experiments versus a nationwide ruling?
1:01:19–1:09:52
8
What are the final arguments about the timing and scope of the Court’s decision on same‑sex marriage?
1:09:52–1:19:58