Horne v. Department of Agriculture (14-275)
argument 14-275Horne v. Department of Agriculture
Supreme Court of the United States
1h 0m
6 speakers
8 chapters
transcribed 7 days ago
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What is the legal dispute between the Hornes and the Department of Agriculture about?
We'll hear an argument this morning in Case 14-275, Horne v. Department of Agriculture. Mr. McConnell.
MR. Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the Court, thank you for being willing to hear this little case a second time. It does involve some important principles in the livelihoods of Marvin and Laura Horne, and more indirectly, hundreds of small California raisin growers will be profoundly affected. This is an administrative enforcement proceeding that was brought by the Department of Agriculture against my clients, commanding the relinquishment of funds connected to specific pieces of property, namely reserve tonnage raisins. My clients appear in their capacity as handlers, but in the particular facts of this case, the economic circumstances are somewhat different than are ordinarily true. in this industry because as handlers, the Horns actually assumed the full financial responsibility for the raisins that were not turned over to the Department of Agriculture.
The producers in this case were fully paid for their raisins. This is a factual finding to be found in the judicial officer's opinion at 66A of the appendix to the petition. The horns paid the producers for their raisins. According to the judicial officer, those raisins became part of the inventory of the horns. When the Raisin Administrative Committee, which I'll refer to as the RAC, came after the raisins, It was the horns and the horns only who bore the economic burden of this taking.
I thought the growers were paid only for the volume that they were permitted, the permitted volume, and that they were not paid for what goes in the reserve pool.
Justice Ginsburg, that is true in the ordinary course. That was not true In this particular case, because of the unusual business model of my clients, these producers were paid for all of their raisins.
Are you objecting to the volume limitation, or is it just that the reserve pool that you find?
We believe that a volume limitation would be a use restriction. It might possibly be challengeable under the Penn Central test. but it would not be a per se taking. In this case, because the government, the RAC, which is an agent of the Department of Agriculture, actually takes possession, ownership of the raisins, it is that aspect of the case which we're challenging.
But that's what's so puzzling because if you're not challenging the volume limit itself, you can't sell more than 60 percent of your crop.
That's correct, yes.
And what happens to the rest of it? You're not going to be able to feed your family on the rest, the
40 percent. In the ordinary case, the reserve percentage, which in one case was 37 percent, was 30 percent, and in the other case, 47 percent, is handed over to the Raising Administrative Committee.
But if it wasn't, if we just had a volume — You cannot sell more than X amount. Then I take it that the grower would get nothing, nothing at all. At least with this reserve pool, there is the possibility of getting some money.
Well, it all depends. The way volume controls generally work is that the owner of the produce is permitted. They have to hold back a certain amount in a reserve, and then they're permitted to sell that reserve as the market conditions continue. In this case, of course, the RAC sold the raisins. In some cases, even above the field price, there was a market for the raisins. So I would assume that volume controls under these economic conditions might have left these particular people better off than under the current
system. So what you're complaining about is the administrative expenses? I still don't understand why this makes this a Penn Central case as opposed to a per se taking. You've given up on this being a Penn Central
case. We have never claimed that there was a Penn Central case.
So basically you see a nexus between the regulation and its purposes.
We do, but more fundamentally, this is an actual transfer of the raisins themselves to the government. How
is this different than Leonard?
Well, Leonard involved oyster shells, which are owned by the state.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the legal dispute between the Hornes and the Department of Agriculture about?
0:00–9:45
2
How do the parties define the “reserve pool” and who bears its economic burden?
9:45–16:23
3
Why do the petitioners argue that the reserve‑raisin taking is a per‑se taking rather than a regulatory restriction?
16:23–24:40
4
How does the Court’s Penn Central test apply to the raisin program versus a tax or taking?
24:40–30:23
5
What analogies do the Justices use (Leonard, Loretto, Monsanto) to assess whether the program is a taking?
30:23–38:12
6
How do the parties calculate the economic impact of the reserve program on growers?
38:12–46:02
7
What arguments are made about the program’s purpose, benefits, and whether compensation is required?
46:02–53:30
8
What is the Court’s final stance on whether the raisin reserve constitutes a constitutional taking?
53:30–1:01:12