Kiobel v. Royal Dutch Petroleum Co. (10-1491rearg)
argument 10-1491reargKiobel v. Royal Dutch Petroleum Co.
Supreme Court of the United States
1h 0m
6 speakers
8 chapters
transcribed 6 days ago
official recording ↗
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What is the central legal issue the Supreme Court is addressing in Kiobel v. Royal Dutch Petroleum?
We'll hear argument first this term in Case 10-1491, Kiobel v. Royal Dutch Petroleum. Mr. Hoffman.
Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the Court, the plaintiffs in this case received asylum in the United States because of the human rights violations alleged in the complaint. They sued the defendants for their role in these human rights violations in U.S. courts because the defendants are here and subject to the general personal jurisdiction of our courts. There's nothing unusual about suing a tortfeasor in our —
JUSTICE GINSBERG. May I ask you about the statement you just made? Personal jurisdiction was raised as a defense, right?
MR. Personal jurisdiction was raised as an affirmative defense, but not raised in a motion to dismiss.
JUSTICE GINSBERG. And so your position is it was waived?
MR. Yes.
But it was not adjudicated that
there is personal jurisdiction? It was not adjudicated in this case. Our position, it was waived when it was not raised in a Rule 12 motion. What effects
that commenced in the United States or that are closely related to the United States exist between what happened here and what happened in Nigeria?
The only connection between The events in Nigeria and the United States is that the plaintiffs are now living in the United States and have asylum because of those events, and the defendants are here. There's no other connection between the events that took place in Nigeria and the forum. The basis for suing the defendants here was because they are here, and because it was possible to get jurisdiction.
And just to make it clear, it's your position, and I believe it's the position of the United States, I'm not sure, that if a U.S. corporation commits an international law violation in the United States, that U.S. corporation can be sued in any court in the world.
Well, it is possible that other countries would A cert jurisdiction, I think that generally speaking, and it might well have been the case in this case, had the issues been raised, most of the time alternative doctrines like the requirement to personal jurisdiction or the requirement or forum non-convenience or other doctrines would have those cases litigated in other places.
But- But the way I stated the hypothetical or the proposition, that is your beginning proposition. Oh, there might be some defenses, but as a beginning matter, they can be sued in any country, in any court in the world.
Well, I think it would depend on what the events were and what the claims were and what the law in that jurisdiction was.
We assume a violation of international law. That's part of the hypothetical. Okay.
Well, I think that if in fact the U.S. corporation committed a violation of a universal jurisdiction norm, for example, as we believe these norms are in this case, there are many jurisdictions in which U.S. corporations could be sued. In fact, in the United Kingdom and the Netherlands, I believe their provisions enforcing the International Criminal Court. I suppose if you
have I suppose if you have, as I think there probably is in this case, a number of plaintiffs, they can sue in a number of different countries, right? Some will sue in the United States, others in the United Kingdom, others in the Netherlands.
Well, it is possible that the plaintiffs could have sued in other places. They sued here because this is where they live. This is their adopted homeland because of that. The United States, under international law, clearly has jurisdiction to adjudicate claims between parties properly before them. Is
there some super body that decides what constitutes a violation of the particular norms of international law? That is to say, these other countries that have jurisdiction, they decide for themselves, don't they, whether there's been a violation of the international norm or not?
Well, if there are proceedings with respect to those norms or violations, yes, they do. I mean, in domestic courts, there are international tribunals that have a limited jurisdiction and they decide. There are some ad hoc tribunals that decide other cases.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the central legal issue the Supreme Court is addressing in Kiobel v. Royal Dutch Petroleum?
0:01–7:44
2
How do the parties argue about personal jurisdiction and whether it was waived?
7:44–15:08
3
What arguments are made regarding the extraterritorial application of the Alien Tort Statute?
15:08–24:28
4
How do the Justices and counsel discuss the presumption against extraterritoriality and its exceptions?
24:28–31:26
5
What role do international law doctrines such as universal jurisdiction and exhaustion of local remedies play in the case?
31:26–38:32
6
How do the parties use historical precedents like Filartiga, Sosa, and piracy cases to shape their positions?
38:32–45:22
7
What is the U.S. Government’s stance on foreign policy implications and the need for a categorical rule?
45:22–52:20
8
How does the Court’s final reasoning address the connection to the United States and the possibility of a cause of action?
52:20–1:00:27