Lamar, Archer & Cofrin, LLP v. Appling (16-1215)
argument 16-1215Lamar, Archer & Cofrin, LLP v. Appling
Supreme Court of the United States
57 min
6 speakers
8 chapters
transcribed 5 days ago
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Transcript
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What is the central legal issue presented in Lamar, Archer & Cofrin v. Appling?
will hear argument in Case
16-1215, Lamar, Archer, and Coffrin v. Appling. Mr. Garr. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the Court. Section 523A2A of the Bankruptcy Code prohibits the discharge of debts procured by fraudulent statements other than a statement respecting the debtor's financial condition. Everyone agrees that financial condition is a term of art that used by Congress and in commercial practice to refer to one's overall financial status. Yet respondent and the government asked this Court to interpret Section 523, and in particular Congress's use of respecting, to eliminate the meaning of financial condition of a term of art and essentially to substitute the word finances for it.
Can you tell me, Mr. Garland, what is a statement — Respecting financial condition in addition to a balance sheet and a profit and loss statement, what else would qualify?
Sure. Well, our view is that a statement respecting financial condition is a statement that purports to present a picture of one's overall financial situation. And there are several things that could qualify as that. One would, of course, be a classic balance statement or sheet. Another would be an indication of net financial net wealth or overall income, a net worth. Another would be a credit score, such as those that were common in 1926 when Congress passed the statute. Another would be net cash flow. All of these things look to one's overall financial situation, not to just one side of the ledger, an asset or a liability, and present a picture of overall financial status. And again, Respondent's interpretation of respecting essentially eliminates that term as a term of limitation and as a term of art and substitutes the word finances for it.
So a statement about any individual input, any individual asset, any individual liability suddenly becomes a statement respecting financial condition. And I think there are three central problems with respondent's interpretation of respecting. The first is, as I mentioned, that their reading of respecting to mean related to eliminates Congress' decision to use the term of art, financial condition. It would be an odd thing for Congress to say, we're going to refer to financial condition, but then essentially eliminate the meaning of that by saying respecting financial condition. And there's no reason why the Court has to interpret respecting to mean related to. It can mean related to, but it can also mean about financial
And here in context, reading respecting financial condition to mean a statement about financial condition makes perfect sense. To say something is about means it refers to the subject of the object. Here the object is the statement, here the subject is financial condition, one's overall financial status. So the fact that they're reading of respecting to mean related to would eliminate financial condition as a term of art and a term of limitation is the first reason why this Court — Could
you tell me, Mr. Gar, what you think the difference is between relating to and about?
I think, Your Honor, if you go to the dictionary, the definition we provide for about means on the subject of. It refers to the subject. The subject here is financial condition. Relating to is a much broader term of breadth, or at least can be used in that way. I mean, this Court famously — this Justice Scalia — famously said, everything is related to everything, essentially. I
mean, it's a term of
great breadth.
So there's something intuitive about what you just said, but then I started trying to come up with sentences in my head where I switched the two words, and I honestly couldn't find one where they meant something different. So I'm hoping you can help me come up with those examples where, you know, just give me a sentence where if you have about, it means something different than if you have relating to.
okay, tell me about Ted Williams' batting average. And here we're using a bat and we're also using batting average, which is a relative term, versus tell me something relating to his batting average.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the central legal issue presented in Lamar, Archer & Cofrin v. Appling?
0:00–7:03
2
How does the Court define a “statement respecting financial condition” under §523A2A?
7:03–13:45
3
Why does the respondent argue that “respecting” should be read as “related to”?
13:45–20:11
4
What examples (e.g., batting average, credit score) illustrate the difference between “about” and “relating to” a statement?
20:11–27:39
5
How do the parties distinguish between “financial condition” and “ability to pay”?
27:39–34:15
6
What legislative history and policy concerns shape the interpretation of the statute?
34:15–41:32
7
How would applying the respondent’s rule affect creditors and small‑business borrowers?
41:32–49:07
8
What conclusion does the Court reach regarding discharge of debts procured by fraudulent statements?
49:07–57:26