Milner v. Department of Navy (09-1163)

argument 09-1163

Milner v. Department of Navy

Supreme Court of the United States 57 min 7 speakers 6 chapters transcribed 7 days ago official recording ↗

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What is the central FOIA exemption being contested in Milner v. Department of the Navy?

John G. Roberts 0:02

We'll hear argument first this morning in case zero nine eleven sixty three Milner versus the Department of the Navy. Mr. Mann?

Daniel T. Mann 0:09

Mr Chief Justice, and may it please the Court There are four points I would like to make this morning. First, the plain language of exemption two dictates an extremely narrow category of materials, those related solely to internal personnel policies and rules. Second. Even if you look beyond the plain language and look to the legislative history, The legislative history is focused in in the the additional legislative history from the House is focused only on law enforcement or investigatory materials. items that were covered through the nineteen eighty six amendments to FOIA, making any additional judicial high two unnecessary. The third point Because of FOIA's purpose, If you find that the language the plain language is not clear, or if you find that the legislative history is insufficient

Daniel T. Mann 0:59

then the focus must be on an interpretation that supports disclosure, not secrecy. And finally, Congress in enacting Foyer. conducted the balancing. in reserve for it itself the authority to add to or expand FOIA through exemption three. It did not leave agency discretion available for the agencies to decide what documents they can provide or not. Moving into our first argument in the plain language. That issue is a very short sentence related solely to internal personnel rules and procedures and rules and practices. Congress chose to to use the words Related solely On purpose. That's an extremely narrow view. Now we understand if you look at the words in isolation. Perhaps you could see that there is some conflict between related

Daniel T. Mann 2:04

Be broad, Soli is extremely narrow. But when read together, as they should be in this statute, related solely. is an extremely narrow class of documents.

Samuel A. Alito 2:15

Could I ask you this? The the D C Circuit's decision in Crooker has been the leading decision in this on this issue for nearly thirty years and there's been a great deal of reliance on it, certainly by the lower courts in general and perhaps also by Congress and by the executive branch. Do you think there's anything to be said for deference to that decision based on the fact that it has been there has been reliance on it to such a great degree for such a period of time.

Daniel T. Mann 2:50

No, Your Honor. When Crooker came down, the court was faced with an extremely a circumstance uh dealing with these FBI or ATF uh certain seizure manuals, and the court adopted and created the high two exemption. But again, we believe in nineteen eighty six Congress dealt with that expressly, explicitly, and took the exact same language and inserted it into a standalone exemption, Exemption seven eight. making crooked no longer needed or necessary.

Samuel A. Alito 3:22

Now

Daniel T. Mann 3:22

I guess

Samuel A. Alito 3:23

the question because the the world has changed in a lot of ways since nineteen eighty one and one is that there is now, I think, much greater concern about the disclosure of information that has perhaps profound security implications. uh that was not as much of a concern in in nineteen eighty one. If you think about For example, suppose there is a federal building with uh a hallway that is uh accessible only to somebody who has a code key. Uh would that be is that Does that have to be disclosed under FOIA or architectural plans for a federal building that would дисклоз w the size of the bomb that would be necessary to bring the building down or bring part of the building down. Is there any FOIA exemption that covers things like that?

Daniel T. Mann 4:16

Well, Your Your Honor, there could be a a variety of FOIA exemptions. It could fit under seven, depending on whether or not it is law enforcement related. For example, if it's FBI instructions on guarding a facility or guarding individuals, perhaps that would be law enforcement. And if it's protecting individuals within the building under seven F. Or it could be something addressed specifically through exemption three. And coming to your original your your original part of your question. that times have changed. We we recognize that and Congress recognized certainly that times could and would change.