National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius (11-393)
argument 11-393National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius
Supreme Court of the United States
1h 30m
8 speakers
8 chapters
transcribed 7 days ago
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Why does the government argue that the individual mandate is essential to the ACA’s guaranteed‑issue and community‑rating provisions?
We will continue argument this morning in case number eleven three hundred ninety-three, National Federation of Independent Business versus Sibelius, and case eleven four four four four four hundred, Florida versus the Department of HHS.
Mr.
Clement.
Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the Court, if the individual mandate is unconstitutional, then the rest of the Act cannot stand. As Congress found and the Federal Government concedes, the community rating and guaranteed issue provisions of the Act cannot stand without the individual mandate. Congress found that the individual mandate was essential to their operation. And not only can guaranteed issue and community rating not stand, not operate in the manner that Congress intended, they would actually counteract Congress's basic goal of providing patient protection but also affordable care. You can w if you do not have the individual mandate to force people into the market, then community rating and guaranteed issue will cause the cost of premiums to skyrocket.
We can debate the order of magnitude of that, but we can't debate that the direction will be upward. We also can't debate
That may well be true. The economists are going back and forth on that issue and the figures vary from up ten percent to up thirty. We're not in the habit of doing the legislative findings. What we do know is that for those states that found prices increasing. that they found s various solutions to that. In one instance, and we might or may not say that it's unconstitutional, Massachusetts passed the mandatory coverage provision. But others adjusted. some of the other provisions. Why shouldn't we let Congress do that if in fact the economists prove some of the economists prove right that prices will spiral. What's wrong with leaving it to in the hands of the people who should be fixing this, not us?
Well a couple of questions uh a couple of responses, Justice Sotomayor. First of all, I think that it's very relevant here that Congress had before it, as examples, some of the states that had tried to impose guaranteed issue and community rating and did not impose an individual mandate. And Congress rejected that model. So your question is quite right in the saying that it's not impossible to have guaranteed issue and community rating without an individual mandate. But it is a model that Congress looked at it and specifically rejected. And then of course there is Congress's own finding. And their finding, of course, this is finding I, which is 43A of the government's brief in the appendix. Congress specifically found that having the individual mandate is essential to the operation of guaranteed issue and community ratings.
That is all it said. It was essential to I mean, I am looking at it. The exchanges state exchanges or information gathering facilities that tell insurers what the various policies actually mean. And that has proven to be a cost saver in many of the states who have tried it. So why should we be ch striking down a cost saver? Well and if what your argument is was that Congress was concerned about costs rising.
I I I think a couple of things. One, you got I mean I I would think you sort of have to take the bitter with the sweep. And if Congress if we're going to look at Congress's goal of providing patient protection but also affordable care, we can't I I don't think it works to just take the things that save money and and cut out the things that are going to make premiums more expensive. But at a minimum
bottom line is why don't we let Congress fix it?
Well I l let me answer the bottom line question, which is no matter what you do in this case At some point there's going to be if you strike down the mandate, there's going to be something for Congress to do. The question is really what task do you want to give Congress? Do you want to give Congress the task of fixing the statute after something has been taken out, especially a provision at the heart, or do you want to give Congress the task of fixing health care? And I think it would be
better
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
Why does the government argue that the individual mandate is essential to the ACA’s guaranteed‑issue and community‑rating provisions?
0:00–10:53
2
How do the parties define and apply the test for severability in this case?
10:53–22:05
3
What role does congressional intent and the statutory findings play in determining which provisions can survive a mandate ruling?
22:05–34:37
4
How might striking the mandate affect insurance premiums, premiums’ affordability, and the overall health‑insurance market?
34:37–46:24
5
What are the arguments about judicial restraint versus legislative discretion in fixing the law?
46:24–59:02
6
How do the justices view the practical consequences of leaving a ‘hollowed‑out’ version of the ACA in place?
59:02–1:10:25
7
What procedural options (special master, further litigation, congressional action) are proposed for addressing the remaining provisions?
1:10:25–1:21:32
8
What is the final position of the government and the petitioners on whether the rest of the ACA should stand or be struck down?
1:21:32–1:30:57