Perry v. Perez (11-713)
argument 11-713Perry v. Perez
Supreme Court of the United States
1h 7m
5 speakers
8 chapters
transcribed 5 days ago
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What is the Supreme Court’s role in interpreting Section 5 pre‑clearance requirements?
We'll hear argument next today in Case 11-713, Perry v. Perez and the Consolidated Cases. Mr. Clement.
Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the Court, the judicial maps drawn here are truly remarkable. They reflect the reality that the district court below lost sight of first principles. The Court repeatedly invoked the principle that these were only interim maps and not remedial maps, but that obscures the reality that a Court has the authority to draw an election map, surely one of the most powerful tools in the judicial arsenal, only if it is identifying specific statutory or constitutional violations or a substantial likelihood thereof.
MR. Mr. Clement, Section 5 says you can't draw new maps unless they've been pre-cleared. You can't put them into effect. So the only thing that exists is old maps until you get the pre-clearance. I don't see how we can give deference to an enacted new map if Section 5 says don't give it effect until it's been pre-cleared.
Well, Justice Sotomayor, obviously Section 5 is clear that the new map drawn by the Texas legislature, the new maps drawn by the Texas legislature, cannot take effect of their own force. But that doesn't answer the question of whether a judge, when having to impose a remedial map to address what all concede is a one-person, one-vote problem with the benchmark maps, can look to the new maps, which also remedy that same one-person, one-vote problem, for guidance. And this Court in
its reappointment — JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR You're asking for more than for guidance. You're asking for deference. You're saying they have to start — with the new map, even though that map hasn't been approved. MR. That's right, Your Honor. JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR. Instead of starting, as the Court below did, with the old map, which had been approved.
MR. Right. We are — in fairness, we're asking for it to be used as the starting point for drawing the new map. But that's
because — JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR. Doesn't that turn Section 5 on its head?
MR. No, I don't think so, Your Honor, for a number of reasons. One is that the obligation to go to the preclearance court or to go to the Attorney General remains fully in place. So the only question is what is going to inform the district court in Texas' exercise of remedial authority to remedy the one person, one vote problem with the remedial plan — with the benchmark plans, rather. Now, this Court, from the very beginning of its reapportionment cases, has emphasized the need to look for legislative guidance in order to inform the judicial exercise of solving that reapportionment problem. And the need to look to the new maps, I think, is most acute, of course, with the congressional maps, because the benchmark is a fine map, but it's a map for 32 seats.
And Congress here, the legislature of Texas, has spoken as to how it would like to divide the new 36-seat allocation up. And it seems to be quite odd that the Court would simply ignore that judgment when it could look to that as the
starting point. It didn't ignore it. It took it into account along with other plans. Mr. Clement, suppose the D.C. Court that has exclusive authority over preclearance in mid-February denies preclearance. And suppose we accept your position. You prevail in this proceeding. And then the three-judge district court says, these plans do not meet the Section 5 requirement. We deny preclearance. What happens if we use the Texas plan that has not been precleared as the interim plan?
Well, Justice Ginsburg, as a practical matter, I suppose at that point, appellees would go to the Court in Texas and say, you need to revise your interim maps once again. Now, I think since the premise for the Court drawing its interim maps is that time is of the essence, it can't wait any longer, the Texas Court may deny that motion or it may grant that motion. I mean, I don't really have a crystal ball to take that into account, but What I do think is particularly anomalous is let's suppose that the D.C. Court does deny preclearance. At that point, it's common ground that the plan, the legislatively enacted plan, even though it's denied preclearance, would be something that the Texas Court would have to defer to.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the Supreme Court’s role in interpreting Section 5 pre‑clearance requirements?
0:03–9:32
2
How does the Court view the use of the state’s unprecleared legislative map as a starting point for a remedial plan?
9:32–16:44
3
What are the arguments about timing and the feasibility of moving Texas’ primary election date?
16:44–26:41
4
How does the Court distinguish between Section 2 and Section 5 violations in this case?
26:41–35:19
5
What standards should a district court apply when drawing interim election maps?
35:19–43:18
6
Why is the “one‑person‑one‑vote” problem central to the Court’s analysis?
43:18–51:45
7
What does the Court say about the creation of minority coalition districts and their legal implications?
51:45–59:03
8
What are the potential outcomes if the Court remands the case back to the Texas district court?
59:03–1:08:10