Sackett v. EPA (21-454)

argument 21-454

Sackett v. EPA

Supreme Court of the United States 1h 48m 8 speakers 8 chapters transcribed 6 days ago official recording ↗
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John G. Roberts 0:00
We will hear argument first this morning in Case 21-454, Sackett v. EPA. Mr. Schiff, you're up first this year.
Paul D. Clement 0:11
Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the Court. It's now going on 16 years since petitioners Mike and Chantel Sackett began construction of a house on a vacant lot in a largely built-out subdivision. Yet their home-building plans remain on hold to this day, because EPA remains steadfast in its view that their property contains navigable waters subject to regulation under the Clean Water Act. But under no plausible interpretation of that term does the agency have such authority. Now, the statute defines navigable waters as the waters of the United States, and so explicitly requires that EPA establish two things before it may regulate. First, there must be a water that is a hydrogeographic feature that in ordinary parlance would be referred to as a type of stream, creek, river, lake, or the like.
Paul D. Clement 0:59
A wetland, however, is none of those things, and so it can be regulated as a water only to the extent that it blends into and thus becomes indistinguishable from an abutting water. Second, the water has to be of the United States. That is, for all practical purposes, a navigable, in fact, water. Now, this test is vastly superior to the significant nexus test for a number of reasons. First and most importantly, the two-step framework closely adheres to the textual limits that Congress itself imposed on the agency. Second, by faithfully adhering to those limits, the test faithfully vindicates all of Congress's purposes, not just its water quality purposes, but also its desire to to preserve the State's traditional preeminence over land and water resources.
Paul D. Clement 1:43
And thirdly, it's an easy-to-administer test. Ordinary citizens can use their own eyes to reliably determine whether or not their land is regulated. And under this two-step framework, it's clear that the Sackett's property contains no waters, much less waters of the United States, and so they should be entitled to a declaration that their property is not subject to EPA's authority. Mr. Schiff,
Clarence Thomas 2:06
can — Can intrastate, purely intrastate navigable bodies of water be waters of the United States?
Paul D. Clement 2:18
Yes, Justice Thomas. And
Clarence Thomas 2:19
how is that, if it's purely intrastate?
Paul D. Clement 2:22
If, as a statutory matter, if that intrastate navigable water connects with some form of interstate transportation, such that there could be a continuous channel of interstate commerce, then that water could be regulated.
Clarence Thomas 2:37
So what does that mean?
Paul D. Clement 2:38
I'll give you an example, Your Honor. The Great Salt Lake. The Great Salt Lake is not a traditional navigable water, even though it's navigable in fact, precisely because it doesn't hook up to any other waters to flow interstate. But obviously there are a lot of forms of non-aquatic transportation that can get you there, and that can sustain an interstate channel of commerce. So that's an example of a water body that though wholly interstate would qualify as a statutory matter, as a water in the United States.
Clarence Thomas 3:06
So why isn't that met here?
Paul D. Clement 3:10
Well, Your Honor, there is no allegation whatsoever that the Sacketts discharged any pollutants into Priest
Clarence Thomas 3:16
Lake. Well, I think the question, the issue would be if there is nearby a body of water that could be considered navigable, that possibly the wetland could be associated or connected with that in some way.
Paul D. Clement 3:35
Your Honor, the —
Clarence Thomas 3:37
I mean, don't you have a ditch? You have a body of water, and you have sort of a nexus with the land.
Paul D. Clement 3:46
Justice Thomas, mere adjacency itself cannot justify the agency's statutory jurisdiction for a number of reasons. The text of the statute says — setting aside even of the United States — the text says that if it's not even a water, it can't even be regulated. And the plain meaning of water, as elucidated by dictionary definitions and what have you, is streams, creeks, rivers, what have you, not wetlands.
Elena Kagan 4:14
But doesn't that, Mr. Schiff, ignore the import of 1344G1, which really specifically says that when we're talking about waters, we're talking about including their wetlands, 1344G1 says.

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