United States v. Apel (12-1038)

argument 12-1038

United States v. Apel

Supreme Court of the United States 59 min 5 speakers 8 chapters transcribed 6 days ago official recording ↗
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What is the procedural background and who are the parties in United States v. Apple?

Unknown 0:00
We'll hear argument this morning in case twelve ten thirty-eight, United States versus Apple. Mr. Horbridge. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice, and may it please the court. Section 1382 makes it a misdemeanor for a person to re enter a military base after having been ordered not to do so by the commanding officer. The Ninth Circuit here added another requirement for conviction, which is that the defendant must be found in a place that, as a matter of real property law, is within the exclusive possession of the United States. Uh that requirement isn't anywhere in the text of the statute. No court has ever given an explanation of where it comes from. Uh and uh respondent no longer defends uh that requirement.

How does the Court interpret the statutory requirement of “exclusive possession” under 18 U.S.C. § 1382?

Unknown 0:41
But it is in it is in the Air Force Manual. And in the Jack opinion was the Exclusive possession criterion. Well I think uh I would say a couple things about those sources, Justice Ginsburg. Um first of all, the uh the they reflect uh essentially conservative legal advice that recognizes that some courts had made a reference to such a requirement. So the responsible thing to do if you're in a a JAG uh rendering an opinion on uh what the right way to structure a lease is or whether an a particular place is in fact covered by thirteen eighty two is to confirm that, yes, this would meet the criteria that the courts have established, but that doesn't certainly doesn't make it binding on this court, and other courts had have held to the contrary, of course,
Unknown 1:26
Have have since this case has been pending quite a while. Has the manual changed? to uh d d to delete the exclusive possession? Uh i if your honor is referring to the U the U.S. Attorney's Attorney's Manual, no. Um it hasn't been altered, although I I would say that the very first section of the U. S. Attorney's Manual makes clear that it It doesn't, it's not intended to create rights, it's not intended to bind the Department of Justice or otherwise modify the meanings of criminal statutes. It's simply a reference guide. And it is a reference guide that certainly would be accurate in some circuits. We think incorrect, and that's what, of course, this court is now in a position to resolve the disagreement between the courts on that on that subject.
Unknown 2:12
So what responded does argue because of course respondent isn't even defending that requirement here, is uh is that Um and what the case then comes down to, I guess, is that uh Vandenberg Air Force Base is not a military installation. Uh now we think it is, and we think all of it is. And the reason for that is that the statute refers comprehensively to a long list of places reservation, fort, post, arsenal, yard, station, installation that covers the range of places that are subject to military command. Um and Vandenberg is of course a place that's subject to military command and in particular
Anthony M. Kennedy 2:51
how do we tell that, Mr. Horwich? What's the test for determining when a place is subject to mil military command?
Unknown 2:58
Military command is a question of author of lawful authority. Um what what might be thought of as a civilian context as the extent of the commanding officer's jurisdiction. And so what uh the way things are set up is that the civilian leadership in the Department of Defense defines bases, and then the military commanders who are appointed by the President uh then through appointing subordinate commands will have units assigned to particular bases, and the commanding officer of the unit will be the commanding officer of the base to which the unit is assigned. Well some military
Samuel A. Alito 3:32
installations are located in very rural areas. Now suppose you have uh an installation in such a place and Um there are buildings and and facilities that you can see in one part of this territory, but there's a lot of open there are a lot of open fields around it. Uh would uh and and suppose there's a it's not posted. Uh would it would that still be uh a military installation if somebody goes on that
Unknown 3:58
It it it would, although let me say a few things about that. Um i i your description actually is pretty apt as to Vandenberg itself.

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