Williams v. Illinois (10-8505)
argument 10-8505Williams v. Illinois
Supreme Court of the United States
1h 1m
5 speakers
8 chapters
transcribed 4 days ago
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Transcript
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What is the central issue of Williams v. Illinois regarding the confrontation clause?
We'll hear argument next in case ten eight five oh five Williams versus Illinois. Mr Carroll.
Mr Chief Justice, and may it please the court. In this case, Sandra Lombato's testified that Mr. Williams' DNA matched a DNA profile that, according to assertions made by analysts from the Selmark Labs, was the genetic description of the p purported offender. Because no one from Selmark appeared at Mr Williams' trial. Lombardo's testimony conveying the testimonial statements um from the cell mark violated Mr Williams' rights under the confrontation clause. Um for these reasons the Illinois Supreme Court's decision should be reversed. Ms Williams or the M. Ms Lombado's testimony on direct examination clearly conveyed some mark statements. She testified that The vaginal swab and blood sample from the victim were sent from s to Cellmark for DNA analysis.
She later was asked Was there a computer match generated from the male DNA profile found in the semen from the vaginal swabs of the victim and the male DNA profile that had been identified as having originated
Council, it hasn't been the focus of the briefing. But you've just made it the focus here. I know that you've been claiming that her statements about what constituted the cell market. um lab results are a statement that violates the confrontation clause. But are you taking the position that her statements and the admission of the documents Um mailing the lab sample to the laboratory and them getting it back, that all of those business records were improperly admitted. Um Everything. Because she testified that in her records She sees that her lab s um and she says I think those records were produced. I could be wrong.
Yet the shipping records were produced.
that the lab sample taken from the victim L J was mailed to the laboratory. And that it came back. Are you taking the position that those shipping documents were Uh not business records. Are you taking the position that those were improperly admitted?
No, Your Honor, at this stage we're not um challenging the admission of the shipping records.
Well that would just show that the uh material went to and came back from the lab. It wouldn't show what the lab results were. It was the results that she testified to, right?
That's correct, Your Honor.
And what other evidence was there of the results besides her testimony?
Uh there is no other evidence.
In the case of the blood that was tested in the police lab. There the person Who was tested Did um Testify at the trial, right? It wasn't just uh laborator. Lavatos, but the one who attested the blood.
The the per the person who testif or who analyzed Mr. Williams' blood did testify live.
Yes. Abenati testified that she did the blood test and it went into the state d database with reference to the other crime, not this crime. Am I correct?
Ya uh yes, Your Honor. The um when he was arrested for an unrelated matter
Right. But she's an expert. She testified how she did the test and what the D and that she put the DNA uh result into into the data bank.
That's correct, Your Honor. Yeah.
Hasn't it long been accepted that experts may testify to the facts that form the basis for their opinions? on the ground that when the experts go over those facts. They are not uh th those that information is not being introduced to prove the truth of the matter assert it. the the the truth of those underlying facts, only that those are the facts that the expert has relied on in reaching an opinion. That has not been considered to be hearsay. Now do you argue that those that that that's incorrect. Those stat exp th those statements cannot be uh testified to as an by an expert uh without their their constituting either hearsay or testimony within the meaning of the confrontation clause?
In this case where the t where the um the basis evidence the expert testifies to um or it's the expert's opinion depends on that those statements being considered true. In those instances then yes, we are arguing that the confrontation clause does not allow
Well let's say that l let me put it this way. Let's say the expert people from the uh the expert testifies.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the central issue of Williams v. Illinois regarding the confrontation clause?
0:00–6:56
2
How does Lombardo’s testimony raise confrontation‑clause concerns?
6:56–14:21
3
Why are expert testimony and hearsay rules pivotal in this case?
14:21–21:52
4
What arguments are made about Wigmore’s historical exceptions to hearsay?
21:52–28:08
5
How does the Court address deference to Illinois Supreme Court rulings?
28:08–36:19
6
What jury instructions are proposed to limit the use of out‑of‑court statements?
36:19–44:14
7
How do the parties compare this case to Crawford, Melendez‑Diaz, and Bullcoming?
44:14–52:54
8
What conclusion does the Court reach about the admissibility of the DNA evidence?
52:54–1:01:29