Adam Tooze

The promise of retaining industrial jobs for that classic industrial working class is not a bad goal, but it's not to be confused with the project of actually supporting progressive change for the majority of Americans. In the industry itself, John, amen to everything you've just said. The Chinese are discovering this, right?

The promise of retaining industrial jobs for that classic industrial working class is not a bad goal, but it's not to be confused with the project of actually supporting progressive change for the majority of Americans. In the industry itself, John, amen to everything you've just said. The Chinese are discovering this, right?

The cutting edge of Chinese EV production is not Fordist tens of thousands of workers. It's not even like the Foxconn plants that make the Apple phones. They're these dark factories with hardly any workers operating hyper-sophisticated robot machinery, which churn out the cars at unbeatably low cost.

The cutting edge of Chinese EV production is not Fordist tens of thousands of workers. It's not even like the Foxconn plants that make the Apple phones. They're these dark factories with hardly any workers operating hyper-sophisticated robot machinery, which churn out the cars at unbeatably low cost.

So the Chinese themselves are going to discover this problem of the disconnect between manufacturing and industrial success and the share of people that can be employed and the social model that goes with that. It's three layers here that are continuously conflated.

So the Chinese themselves are going to discover this problem of the disconnect between manufacturing and industrial success and the share of people that can be employed and the social model that goes with that. It's three layers here that are continuously conflated.

Overheating.

Overheating.

Yeah, and it's always service sector inflation is what really causes the financial markets to panic. And so the sector inflation is driven by labor costs. So that goes hand in hand with wage increases for the lowest paid American blue collar workers, blue collar in the widest sense. But I mean, in fairness to the Fed, they ran this baby as hot as they dared, right? For as long as they dared.

Yeah, and it's always service sector inflation is what really causes the financial markets to panic. And so the sector inflation is driven by labor costs. So that goes hand in hand with wage increases for the lowest paid American blue collar workers, blue collar in the widest sense. But I mean, in fairness to the Fed, they ran this baby as hot as they dared, right? For as long as they dared.

By central banking standards, this was an experiment in risk, which of course more centrist Democrats like Larry Summers attacked from the very beginning and the GOP rode in on in an utterly cynical way. during the campaign, denouncing inflation and everything else. Whereas you're saying, John, this has been, like it or not, believe it or not, a good time for the least well-paid American workers.

By central banking standards, this was an experiment in risk, which of course more centrist Democrats like Larry Summers attacked from the very beginning and the GOP rode in on in an utterly cynical way. during the campaign, denouncing inflation and everything else. Whereas you're saying, John, this has been, like it or not, believe it or not, a good time for the least well-paid American workers.

A lot of the inequality of the 70s and 80s has been closed up by rises in their wages. Not at the super top. Obviously, the billionaires are better off than ever. But within the workforce, there has been a modest closing of the gap.

A lot of the inequality of the 70s and 80s has been closed up by rises in their wages. Not at the super top. Obviously, the billionaires are better off than ever. But within the workforce, there has been a modest closing of the gap.

Everyone was farming in that period. 80% of Americans were farmers in the Hamiltonian period, right? Right. This policy seems to be taking us back more to 1870. It's great. This is a good exercise. The 1890s. That's what I'm not sure of. The huge waves of migration, the 93 to 96 recession, the 1907 recession, 2021, and then the big kahuna. And then the big one.

Everyone was farming in that period. 80% of Americans were farmers in the Hamiltonian period, right? Right. This policy seems to be taking us back more to 1870. It's great. This is a good exercise. The 1890s. That's what I'm not sure of. The huge waves of migration, the 93 to 96 recession, the 1907 recession, 2021, and then the big kahuna. And then the big one.

The Great Depression, like the most dynamic economy in the world by all means, but the worst governed, the most unstable, incredible inequalities. Patronage, corruption. Class war, the Ku Klux Klan, the whole, you know, that is the, this is what we want.

The Great Depression, like the most dynamic economy in the world by all means, but the worst governed, the most unstable, incredible inequalities. Patronage, corruption. Class war, the Ku Klux Klan, the whole, you know, that is the, this is what we want.

I think to make sense of this is a fascinating conversation. I think we need two extra terms. One is social democracy, which I quite like this reading of the New Deal as Jeffersonian goals by Hamiltonian means. But another way of thinking of the New Deal is it's America's effort at social democracy. In other words, an organized bargain between American workers and capital.

I think to make sense of this is a fascinating conversation. I think we need two extra terms. One is social democracy, which I quite like this reading of the New Deal as Jeffersonian goals by Hamiltonian means. But another way of thinking of the New Deal is it's America's effort at social democracy. In other words, an organized bargain between American workers and capital.