Alan Kohler

in which he predicted that 50% of white-collar jobs would be taken by AI in one to five years, I think he said.

He'd already said that a year ago as well.

So is that just his opinion, or was it based on work you've done?

So just to be clear about it, the two things you're saying are that firstly,

it's really difficult to say what's going to happen in one to five years.

It's kind of really uncertain.

But secondly, that you're not seeing any material change in employment in the jobs that are most affected by AI.

Is that what you're saying?

In journalism, we have something called editorial independence, you know, whereby the owner of the business doesn't tell us what to write.

So do you have...

editorial independence in your team and in the Anthropic Institute generally?

What I find striking is that your work and your words, what you're saying now, is much more sober

than your boss, Dario Amadei, who kind of says stuff like that, you know, that 50% of white-collar jobs are going to go in one to five years.

He also said that there's a 25%, one in four chance of doom, some sort of existential problem for humanity.

I mean, these are kind of wild statements.

What's going on here?

I mean, that's not what you'd expect the CEO of a company that's got a product that they're trying to sell to go around saying.

I mean, that's really interesting.

And I want to get onto the innovation of innovation in a minute.

But what you seem to be saying is that a lot of our sort of assumptions about economics