Alastair Campbell

And by the way, Roy, I yesterday was at an event,

with Mick Mulvaney, who was Donald Trump's chief of staff for a while in his first term.

And he was very interesting about this.

I mean, look, our politics are sort of way apart, but he did say something which really struck home.

He said, look, I get why you feel the way you do about Trump and Ukraine,

But you've got to understand, most of the people in America, they're sitting there thinking, hold on a minute, you Europeans, you're way richer than Russia.

The European economy is a lot bigger than Russia's.

Why do you keep looking to us?

And it's sort of, because Trump does it in the way that he does it, it brought it home to me that we...

We're not being serious enough about this threat and why the European response has to change.

And also, just to jump in on Russia, if you look at Russia, they did have a bit of economic sugar rush on the back of suddenly being back in a major war.

But it's now one of the reasons why their economy is struggling.

So I think you're right about that.

They do like to be ahead of the game.

Let me just give you, Roy, somebody just sent me this.

It's a statement by the trade body, ADS, for the Aerospace Defense Security and Space Sectors.

Okay.

Kevin Cragen.

He says, John Healy has consistently shown himself to be an intelligent, supportive, highly principled man who has the best interest of UK defense, top of mind in everything that he does.

His resignation today is something to lament and is truly a damning reflection of