Alastair Campbell

And I think there have been too many examples of

of where people, whether it's from the Manchester arena bombings, whether it's from the... Victoria Klimbie.

Sorry?

Victoria Klimbie.

Victoria Klimbie.

There have been too many where people have been scared off doing the right thing because they're worried about accusations of racism.

For us to just ignore that.

But the tone he's taken has made it harder to have those conversations because a lot of people who value our actually pretty good track record of race relations and integration

They have been dissuaded from entering into that conversation because he has amplified the polarization of the debate.

And to add anger into the mix, we started off talking about our time in the military.

And there are people who have been to far more dangerous places than I have whilst being in uniform or whatever.

But you're always taught to think calmly as an officer.

And that's not to be unemotional, but it's about not letting your emotions get the better of you.

And for someone in a serious position, a senior political figure, to say the appropriate response is,

is rage i don't think adds value and i know that people will say well vance said that as well lammy said that in the past and i i'm critical of everyone who says in a difficult situation the best thing you can do is to be emotional rather than thoughtful it's always always always the wrong response well thank you thank you very much james

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