193. James Cleverly: Why Has There Been A Radical Shift On The Right?
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That's therestispolitics.com. Starmer does not understand how diplomacy works. He gives things away in the hope that he's buying good work. It doesn't work like that. It's a negotiation. He's awful on the international stage. He's useless. Nigel Farage, I think his big motivation is to be able to say to people, you wrote me off and you were wrong. That's all he wants. If he ever walked through the door of number 10, he would regard the job done as he crossed the threshold rather than saying, this is the start of the job. And I think that'd be catastrophic.
One of the things that's unanchored both of the main parties is the failure to admit to the consequences of Brexit.
I knew you were going to go there. I don't want to make this all about Brexit.
Well, I know that's part of the problem.
No, no, we're not going to agree. The statistics, you can roll your eyes and sigh all you like. We're seeing a similar polarisation of politics in countries that did not do a Brexit.
Partly because the mainstream parties have made the same mistake.
They don't fight these guys hard enough.
What does James Cleverly think about Nigel Farage and Reform?
But that's not a Brexit thing.
They play their game.
No, you're proving my point.
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Welcome to the Restless Politics Leading with me, Rory Stewart. And me, Alistair Campbell. And we're very lucky to have with us Sir James Cleverley, who we've actually been trying to get for some time. I was WhatsAppping him frantically when he was Foreign Secretary or Home Secretary, but clearly now he believes that we're worth engaging with. James was a friend of mine in Parliament. He became an MP in 2015. Before that, he was a long-time member of the London Assembly. He was also a territorial army officer for a long time and is a colonel in the military. He comes from a very interesting background, which we can talk about a little bit at the beginning. There are persistent rumors that he might be our future mayor of London.
And he was also, for our listeners, our most favorite potential Tory leadership candidate in Every time, literally, when we went round, it's true, isn't it?
It's a kiss of death.
We went round doing these live tours, literally 4,000, 5,000 people, including the O2, which is only 12,000 people. And we'd ask them who they wanted to be the Tory leadership candidate, Generic, Badenoch or you. And you would win like 90% of the time.
Thereby showing possibly that our listeners are more informed and more intelligent of the Conservative Party membership. What do you think?
Well, I never got to the membership. I never got to the membership. I think if I'd got to the membership, I would have won. I think the fact that I'd been party chairman, that I'd been in the party a long time, I'd spent a lot of time helping other conservatives get elected at local government level and mayoral level and things like that.
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4 chaptersSpeakers
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