Alex Partridge

And they don't need to be in person, do they?

They could be perhaps like on a laptop screen, just in silence while you go through your emails.

Yeah, no, it does.

Absolutely.

I suppose object permanence in a way can make you forget about the original mess.

And therefore the reward of it now being clean can disappear too.

Definitely.

It definitely works.

I've had loads of experience with body doubling.

You kind of just feed off someone's energy.

And the whole out of sight leads us on to the point number four quite nicely, which is out of sight storage.

So we put stuff in a drawer, in a cabinet, in a cupboard, close the cupboard thinking, right, that's it, that's done.

And then, of course, we just forget that it exists.

Yes.

Why does that happen?

Gosh, the vitamin pills felt deeply personal, Hester, because I have many, I know for a fact I have many out-of-date vitamin boxes in my cupboards.

Like for me, it's like my cleaning has four stages, or it used to.

I think it's like step one, panic clean.

Step two, hide everything.

Step three, forget where they are.