Alex Wagner

to me, like a sociopath and has a real intuitive feel for attention. And part of what she does is a great example. When she does those Instagram lives, like I'm talking to you as a former comm staffer, like right now I'm talking to you just to pull back the curtain. My PR people are on this podcast. Okay. What's up Natalie? Because they're like, they want, they're nervous.

to me, like a sociopath and has a real intuitive feel for attention. And part of what she does is a great example. When she does those Instagram lives, like I'm talking to you as a former comm staffer, like right now I'm talking to you just to pull back the curtain. My PR people are on this podcast. Okay. What's up Natalie? Because they're like, they want, they're nervous.

to me, like a sociopath and has a real intuitive feel for attention. And part of what she does is a great example. When she does those Instagram lives, like I'm talking to you as a former comm staffer, like right now I'm talking to you just to pull back the curtain. My PR people are on this podcast. Okay. What's up Natalie? Because they're like, they want, they're nervous.

I'm going to say something. Right. I mean, they trust me, but like, that's part of their job. Okay. Sure. Like when she does an Instagram live, like, That's scary for staff. Yeah.

I'm going to say something. Right. I mean, they trust me, but like, that's part of their job. Okay. Sure. Like when she does an Instagram live, like, That's scary for staff. Yeah.

I'm going to say something. Right. I mean, they trust me, but like, that's part of their job. Okay. Sure. Like when she does an Instagram live, like, That's scary for staff. Yeah.

You can say all that and be like, what I will fight is like, taking cop beaters and putting them out on the street to menace our members of law enforcement. What I will fight is freezing all cancer funding in this country and scientific research. Like you could do that whole thing and then wield some sort of attack. But they're all everyone's flat footed. Everyone's second guessing themselves.

You can say all that and be like, what I will fight is like, taking cop beaters and putting them out on the street to menace our members of law enforcement. What I will fight is freezing all cancer funding in this country and scientific research. Like you could do that whole thing and then wield some sort of attack. But they're all everyone's flat footed. Everyone's second guessing themselves.

You can say all that and be like, what I will fight is like, taking cop beaters and putting them out on the street to menace our members of law enforcement. What I will fight is freezing all cancer funding in this country and scientific research. Like you could do that whole thing and then wield some sort of attack. But they're all everyone's flat footed. Everyone's second guessing themselves.

But again, here's where this is an important thing. And again, I write about this at some length in the book that's about the politics of this. It's not like that caution hasn't also paid off for Democrats. So, like, one of the most cautious gubernatorial campaigns that I've ever seen was the Arizona- Katie Hobbs.

But again, here's where this is an important thing. And again, I write about this at some length in the book that's about the politics of this. It's not like that caution hasn't also paid off for Democrats. So, like, one of the most cautious gubernatorial campaigns that I've ever seen was the Arizona- Katie Hobbs.

But again, here's where this is an important thing. And again, I write about this at some length in the book that's about the politics of this. It's not like that caution hasn't also paid off for Democrats. So, like, one of the most cautious gubernatorial campaigns that I've ever seen was the Arizona- Katie Hobbs.

Exactly. Katie Hobbs runs for governor in Arizona against Carrie Lake, who's, like, the ultimate attention age figure. She was a news broadcaster. She says outrageous things. Hobbs was just, like, low profile, kept it tight, disciplined, didn't court a lot of attention. And she won that race. And-

Exactly. Katie Hobbs runs for governor in Arizona against Carrie Lake, who's, like, the ultimate attention age figure. She was a news broadcaster. She says outrageous things. Hobbs was just, like, low profile, kept it tight, disciplined, didn't court a lot of attention. And she won that race. And-

Exactly. Katie Hobbs runs for governor in Arizona against Carrie Lake, who's, like, the ultimate attention age figure. She was a news broadcaster. She says outrageous things. Hobbs was just, like, low profile, kept it tight, disciplined, didn't court a lot of attention. And she won that race. And-

Republicans have lost a lot of races with Trump like figures who have ended up on the wrong side of this negative attention trade. So, again, it's not so clear cut that like it's just the case that if you're a troll, you have power. It takes a special kind of person to pull it off.

Republicans have lost a lot of races with Trump like figures who have ended up on the wrong side of this negative attention trade. So, again, it's not so clear cut that like it's just the case that if you're a troll, you have power. It takes a special kind of person to pull it off.

Republicans have lost a lot of races with Trump like figures who have ended up on the wrong side of this negative attention trade. So, again, it's not so clear cut that like it's just the case that if you're a troll, you have power. It takes a special kind of person to pull it off.

Yeah, no, I agree. And I think partly that is... I don't know how much that's a Trumpian transformation, though, too. I mean, I think partly it is. Obama participated in that. Obama was an enormous cultural figure. I mean, he's the most famous person in the country and the biggest star in the world. That was the attack ad from John McCain. That was a very funny attack ad. People forget this.

Yeah, no, I agree. And I think partly that is... I don't know how much that's a Trumpian transformation, though, too. I mean, I think partly it is. Obama participated in that. Obama was an enormous cultural figure. I mean, he's the most famous person in the country and the biggest star in the world. That was the attack ad from John McCain. That was a very funny attack ad. People forget this.