Alice Han

Yeah, definitely.

Okay, let's take one last quick break and we'll be back with Patrick McGee.

So stay with us.

Well, welcome back.

We're joined now by journalist Patrick McGee.

He is the author of the fascinating book, Apple and China, the Capture of the World's Greatest Company, which was published earlier this year to widespread acclaim.

Patrick, thanks so much for joining us.

It seems quite fitting that you are our first guest.

I believe there is an FT connection with James as well, but you are the honorary first guest.

So welcome to China Decode.

Well, let's go straight into your book, which I am midway reading and I am absolutely loving it.

Your book takes the reader through the recent history of Apple's incredible investment in China.

What's striking to me is that Apple as a company, earning $400 billion in revenues, is unlike most US tech companies, it is very hardware dependent and very China dependent.

And in fact, in the course of its evolution and a relationship with China, it's actually doubled down on its China dependency.

And the iPhone is still its most important product with huge vulnerabilities because of its relationship and ties to China.

Why, to your mind, has China doubled down on this strategy that's made it even more reliant on China in the last few years and not less?

And just a quick follow up, why is it that it's so hard to get off this China dependency?

What is it that's so sui generis and unique about the China case that makes it so captive?

Well, the other thing that struck me as interesting, Patrick, in your book is the fact that in a way, and I'm inferring it, you can't have Huawei and Xiaomi in China without Apple in China.

That there were in some of these contracts embedded within the relationship between the OEM suppliers and Apple, that they couldn't be the suppliers too dependent on Apple.