Alison Pugh

Cause I guess in my experience of doing it, you're so kind of present with that person and you're just trying to understand their perspective.

So somebody else's perspective is only relevant if you're like trying to kind of fight with them or something, but really you're just trying to hear what their story is.

I don't think that that would be very difficult.

The difficult part is if you have to make them agree somehow.

When you talk to therapists, many of them say so many people only want to meet on Zoom now.

So COVID and the pandemic really altered the terrain, the working terrain for them.

And they say you can see the other over Zoom.

Now that's

That's actually controversial because you can't really have eye contact.

And so you're missing a lot of the bodily kind of just the vibe and the nonverbal communication that happens when you're in the same room.

And you're missing other things, of course, also.

But you can do it.

But I believe, according to what I hear from practitioners, it's completely exhausting.

So one of the things that I wrote about was how sustaining this labor is actually for people.

They get so much out of it.

People tell me, I feel honored.

I feel incredibly privileged that I get to hear this.

It's a deeply, powerfully sustaining practice for people.

And I think when it's on Zoom, it's exhausting.

I think the newer versions of ChatGPT and its inheritors can feel like being seen on some level.