Alison Pugh

And actually, there's been great psychological research talking about how

We shouldn't think of this as perspective taking.

We should instead think of this as perspective getting.

So it starts with asking or checking on your assumptions about them.

So your posture towards reading them is not like, this is what you're feeling.

So it sounds like something like this.

It's more tentative.

And you're aware.

Your first task is to listen.

And to be humble.

And those sound simple, but actually when so much of our misreads happen under conditions of trying to do it quickly.

So many of the practitioners in these fields, let's start with primary care physicians, have no time.

So I have a lot of sympathy for the working conditions that are making it hard for them to see other people, but I would say try and hold that off because your efficiency pressures are gonna make you do this poorly.

That's interesting.

When I'm saying tentative, I'm not saying don't do it.

So don't take the risk of saying what you think they're saying to you.

But just be aware that you might be wrong and be open to that and correcting that.

There's a lot of research that shows that when you correct something that's wrong, they feel more seen.

But really, it's the task of

of listening and taking a risk.