Alistair Campbell

But the problem at the moment is our economies are going to grind to a grinding halt.

We're going to end up without the basic stuff to run our economy.

And we're looking foolish.

You know, when China is stockpiling oil, Japan is stockpiling oil, we're all patting ourselves on the back in an illusion that we don't need it.

We do need it now for so many things.

Beautiful.

Well, let's take a quick break.

And when we come back, talking about NSU, just to make the transition.

It's very interesting.

This is the tragic death of Henry Nowak, which has been a much more dominant issue than the fact that we're about to go into an economic recession caused by the Straits of Hormuz.

And it tells us a lot about the tragedy.

It also tells us a lot about what politicians are talking about and concentrating on and the things the public are interested in.

Let's take a quick break and then back from there.

This episode is brought to you by Lloyds.

Now, it seems like there's a big new political news story every day, but what we often don't get into is all the systems which are ticking around in the background, which actually keep things running and keep things safe.

It's civil servants, it's systems, it's structures.

And finally, fraud, you know, how fraud evolves, how it spreads, how much effort goes into preventing it by governments as well as businesses.

Yeah, Lloyds are very serious about it.

They've invested £100 million in technology to protect their customers from fraud, and they make on average 23,551 transaction checks every minute, which you have to say is a pretty vital system for all of us.

So