Alistair Campbell

And I just think that's not a bad way to go.

You can also, by the way, you could invite states.

You could invite California.

He doesn't give up, though, does he?

I just think there'd be something very invigorating and exciting about a body that basically said, this is a body for the middle powers.

So part of the challenge they're all dealing with all the time without being very open about it is how do you deal with the United States and the China in their current form?

Have a discussion about that.

And I just think that Carney's really onto something with this.

And we've got to grow up

And stop, because the truth is, look, America is incredibly powerful.

But I think the other thing that you sensed at Davos was that if those other countries did actually sort of find a way of coming together, America becomes a bit of a show, as opposed to what Trump projected at, which is all powerful.

It's not all powerful.

Frankly, all win a war against Russia, providing it doesn't unleash all the nukes.

So listen, as I said earlier, Rory, we're talking on the day that Keir Starmer's heading off to China.

First British prime minister to go in eight years.

He actually made quite an interesting speech about China, which didn't get much attention at the time.

His Lord Mayor's Banquet speech, or Lady Mayor, as she now is,

A lot of it was about China and essentially saying that we've sort of gone from this hot world where Cameron Osborne said China's where we sort of bank the future.

And then we've had eight years since Theresa May was prime minister where literally nobody has gone to China.

And whilst Macron's been there three or four times, Merz I think is going next month.