Amanda Montel
Appearances
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Honestly, whoa. Massive dub. What a weird PR strategy.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
OK, so this is my question. Like just sort of nervous system wise, I can't relate at all to these motherfuckers because.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
For sure. But even if I'm like at my most empathetic and I'm like, let me get into the mind and body of an arty type just to see what's what's making him tick. I can't I can't I still can't understand how one could reconcile wanting love. wartime and wanting conflict because it will be good for your wallet. But like, we're not, yeah, I just don't get it how it works.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
And justify the means philosophy.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Like it's just kind of- No, that's so true.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
I, it just keeps reminding me of, I mean, obviously we have like cultural lessons and axioms and proverbs that try to convince us to resist those impulses. And the one I always think of is that Edward Abbey quote. That's like growth for growth sake is the ideology of a cancer cell.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
It's so hard to internalize messaging like that.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
It's like Pavlov's dog. It's like if money comes because of war, let's do more war.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Yeah, Murdoch situation.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Shurl also ran a series of small- Robert, were you always this good at reading and pronouncing German words or has the podcast- I am not good at all.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Oh, I mean, it sounds like super confident. You're not even like fumbling.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Is that like chump change to him?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Oh, my God. Yeah. They're poisoning wells in so many ways.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Yeah, that's a really bad Kaiser. I got the fuck out of that Kaiser.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Is this what's happening in conservative media right now? Because, yes, I don't know.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Oh, my God. Did you see that infographic or like some?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
I mean, I saw it in the form of an infographic talking about how like. Yeah. The like biggest thought leaders and pundits right now, like podcasters are all conservatives, except for like one exception, that being Trevor Noah. And I was just like, this feels like a conspiracy.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
conservative, like bitterness.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Loss aversion, conspiratorialism.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
You are. You're keeping its memory alive right now.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Oh, my God. So he's back to his roots.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
He's been at this for a while.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
I'm just thinking, like, he must be experiencing back pain by now.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
It's a lot of sitting, though.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Oh, I was already considering taking the stairs more.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
I don't like those roots. I'm taking those stairs.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
I don't get that either. OK, I want to hear what impressed him most. Let's hear that first.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
It is. I do not get it. It's yelly. It's one note. He doesn't follow the rules of classical dynamics. It's like a bad pop song that's just fortissimo the whole way through. Sure. It's like, where did mezzo piano go? People say that about Trump.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
The populist yelling.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
True. It's cathartic.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Yeah. There's so much of that happening in Germany throughout these years.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
A lot of nose holding.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Oh, my God. OK, so you said like way, way earlier in this recording that Hugenberg was not necessarily the most introspective motherfucker.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Right. So what do you think he thinks is the justification for all of this at this point? Like, how is he not feeling cognitive dissonance or guilt or like... How is he? I'm just curious.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Okay. Yeah. Clearly.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
But does Hugenberg not understand the exactly. But like, does Hugenberg not understand the power of youthful cool? Because no.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
And is that just – was it really just like Hitler's personality? Like everyone underestimated him and then just got fucking clobbered by the guy.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
I guess, too, one of the reasons why people call Trump stupid is because of data that will come out from time to time saying that he, like, speaks at a third-grade reading level, whereas, like, the average presidential candidate speaks at a 10th-grade reading level or whatever.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
How do I get like just the tiniest little bit of that energy?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
I can't think of a worse mediator in all of human history than Adolf Hitler.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Hitler's like meeting gently with Alfie, meeting gently with everyone else.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Hey, buddy, nobody is angry, you know?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
What that moment, that moment when you become your podcast.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
He's really old by then.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Oh, my. Did he ever have a family? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Yeah. Oh, I'm sure they hated his guts. He sounds awful.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Whoa. Wow. What a random piece of shit.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it is true that like a major difference between him and Elon is that he came from not nothing, but nothing compared to Elon. And so no rich dad eyes. Exactly. And so like his rise is a little scary because there was like no warning. He was just like bobbing and weaving, bobbing and weaving his way to this like opportunistic position.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
And it kind of inspires two feelings like, holy shit, like who's going to be the next this guy? And wow, I'm kind of... like soothed that more people like this aren't are not coming up already.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Or like get involved with weapons manufacturing and like selling weapons. Really?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
But I guess define weapon in the digital age is tricky.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Yeah, yeah. Damn. Okay. Fuck.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Oh, and it's always a dude who has weird, weird face.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Yeah. Wow. Thank you for regaling me with that tale. It was a roller coaster. I keep thinking back on this art exhibit I went to in Zurich where, was his name Klumpt? Gloop?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Oh, not Gustav Klumpt. I'm talking about the weapons manufacturer, the arms manufacturer. Klumpt.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Yeah, Krupp. Oh, Krupp.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Yeah, that's that's wild. I was just like pondering the how weird how weird it was. And this was like the point of the exhibition to like admire this these beautiful artworks. I mean, there were like Monet's in there and Degas in there.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Yeah, and, like, he was, like, celebrated as an art collector, like, this amazing taste or whatever, and, like, the reason he was able to acquire that artwork was because he was, like, making weapons that ended World War II or made World War II possible and...
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. This was awesome. I love, I love, well, I love and I hate and I feel, I feel icky and I feel great about knowing stories like the one you just told me. And if people want to know stories that will make them happy,
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
chortle and also feel a little disturbed um they can find me at uh sounds like a cult pod wherever you you stream podcasts i have another podcast called magical overthinkers and i got a bunch of books cultish the age of magical overthinking i love talking about social science in a cheeky way
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Oh, my God. It's it is a it's a genocide.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Where do you end? And it begins subject verb agreement. I don't know.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
OK, wait, I have a question. So one of the like mind blow moments for me from our part one was the context that so much of German nationalism hinged on them being jealous of Britain's colonization of various territories.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Still, though, Germany's attitude seems especially belligerent. Were there other nations that had newly embraced nationalism around this time that aspired to the level of colonization and brutality that Germany was executing? Sure.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
The overconfidence, man.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
As an Italian, I thought your number one enemy was not eating lunch.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. The Italians, they're everywhere and they're doing all sorts of things.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
Oh my God, is that true?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Alfred Hugenberg: The Elon Musk of Weimar Germany
No, no way. I feel like Luigi has even overtaken the Luigi from Mario.