Ambassador Robert Blackwill

And I can't be sure, obviously, who the Republican nominee would be and what he would say.

So what I'm advising is a much more.

But I think the challenge, the debate after Trump will be between American nationalism, which, as I say, for more than 150 years was American grand strategy.

robust engagement with the international system than recent administrations.

That's liberal internationalism strengthened in every dimension.

And I hope a much stronger liberal internationalism with a much stronger

And an increased defense budget, which stops China from narrowing the gap and therefore produces deterrence across the Taiwan Strait.

greater capacity in the military, more defense of international institutions and so forth.

And I know that'll be a hard sell.

And the American people, the Americans will have to be persuaded.

And I think that'll be the debate.

It'll be the Western hemisphere versus the globe.

But that's what we used to believe presidents do, which is persuade the American people that what they want to do, what America's role in the world should be.

And the American people instinctively, as you say, Chuck, all the way back to the beginning, are anxious about alliances, about entangling alliances, to use the founders' words.

is part of their job.

And I think President Trump has articulated a vision very powerfully.

And so if it is Vice President Vance, then...

I think it's counterproductive in almost every way, but he's worked hard at it.

He will campaign as a Trumpist, but I don't think he will be a Trumpist.

The next president, if he proceeds anywhere near along the lines I would like, he or she