Ambassador Robert Blackwill

And the American people instinctively, as you say, Chuck, all the way back to the beginning, are anxious about alliances, about entangling alliances, to use the founders' words.

And so if it is Vice President Vance, then...

He will campaign as a Trumpist, but I don't think he will be a Trumpist.

I think most likely he'll be an American nationalist.

And then that raises the question, well, who is the Democrat candidate?

And what is the Democrat approach to world order and U.S.

grand strategy today or more pertinently during the campaign?

And I don't have a clue.

Perhaps you do, but I don't have a clue where they'll come out.

Well, that is related to what I said earlier.

At Davos, a friend of mine asked a foreign minister, well, what about after Trump?

And he said, well, if the next president looks more like ones we've seen before, OK, but then we can get another Trump.

And my argument, which my friend didn't use, but my argument is, no, you're not going to get another Trump.

He is such a singular figure in American history that, as I said, I think many of his policies will go with him.

Let me pause you there.

I think you're the expert on domestic politics.

It's not my line of work, but I think it mostly shows the weakness of the Democrat candidate, or at least that- Oh, I don't disagree.

I mean, the last three have been-

The Trump approach, which is, as I say, I think at the base un-American because it has no values in it, and every president back to Washington had values in their approach to international affairs.

I don't think J.D.