Amelia Lester

And you used an interesting word there before, Holly, because you used the word platform, I think, or platforming.

And by the way, in 2016, I don't think that was a word that was really around.

Like that's a relatively new concept, the idea that by giving someone airtime or choosing to feature them editorially,

You are implicitly endorsing what they're saying.

I don't think that's necessarily true.

But to use that Love Island example, that guy is a Love Island contestant who is being asked about a complex social issue that has a lot of very difficult and challenging reasons why it's happening, why people aren't having kids.

And he is extremely dismissive about why women aren't having kids.

And he essentially says he watched a TikTok where a woman said she can't go to brunch and that's why women aren't having kids.

Now, I don't need to tell the listeners of this podcast that that's probably not the reason why a lot of women aren't having kids.

So I think it's fair game.

If you're going to put that person on a widely listened podcast and he's going to dismiss the experiences of millions of women as sort of superficial and vapid, I think it's fair game to say, well, I think that that reason is superficial and vapid.

Because it boosts engagement.

I think it's actually more about the fact that you don't get to be Stephen Bartlett or Joe Rogan if you're not very good at reading the collective tea leaves and figuring out where the public mood is and where the public sentiment is going.

So I think right now...

Stephen Bartlett is tech adjacent.

He comes from the tech world.

The tech world is dominated by men who have been, quote unquote, red pilled.

And that's what's working for him right now.

But what's interesting is, counter example, Joe Rogan has just this week spoken out critically about what the Trump administration is doing, which suggests to me that these are men who are just trying to figure out what's going to get them the connection with the audience at any given time.

Holly is striking some entire bank.